Re: Rocks? | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Stonehenge and its Environs 134

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Rocks?

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BuckyE Jul 16, 2006 09:20:47

Replying to Littlestone

I think Nigel could vouch, at least in part, for Loie and I having more interest in your cultural heritage (after all, it's ours, too) than many of your contrymen. We've been to...well, here's a partial list I started to draw up for a little writing project (many of the sites are American)...

1991 Honeymoon, CA & AZ
around Flagstaff, CA:
Newspaper Rock, Petrified Forest AZ (Anasazi[?] petroglyphs)
Puerco Indian Ruin (Anasazi)
Wokiki, Wapatki (with Ampitheatre and Ball Court) Ruins (Anasazi)
Lomoki Ruins: Beautiful House (Anasazi)
Tusayan Ruin [near Grand Canyon] (Anasazi)
[Hopi Indian reservation]

1994 Hawaii
3 Petroglyph sites on Hawaii

1997 Farmington NM: Driving Yo
Aztec Ruins (Anasazi)
Chaco Canyon pueblos and petroglyphs (Anasazi)
Hovenweep Canyon houses (Anasazi)
Mesa Verde: Balcony House; Petroglyph Point (Anasazi)
El Morro National Park petroglyphs (Anasazi)
[Zuni Indian reservation]

1999 DtSA I Scotland
Corrimini Cairn, Clava Cairns, unexcavated cairn, Learable Hill stones
McLeod Stone, ? circle, Callanish I, II, III
Ring of Brogar, Scara Brae, Stones of Stenness, Barnhouse, Maes Howe, Unstan Tomb, Isbister
Temple Stones
East Auquorthies, stones near Castle Fraser, Sunhoney, Cullerlie, (Archeolink Park), Loanhead of Daviot, nameless ruined circle of Earlsfield Farm, Medmar Kirk
National Museum, Edinburg
Goatstones
[Harian's Wall; Roslynn Chapel]

2000 Tuscany
Etruscan:
Volterra Gates, museum: shadow of Night, funerary caskets

2002 DtSA II Languedoc
cairns, passage graves and menhirs around Peret; statue menhirs; Cave of Niaux [Peyrpreteuse, Rennes le Chateau]

2004-03 Paris [One week after Yo died]
National Museum of Archaeology

2004-07 DtSA Part III England, Brittany
Stonehenge private visit, Woodhenge, Durrington Walls, Cursus, barrows
Avebury [with the Stone Pagers]
Carnac and environs [full list will be about twenty sites]
Pink Granite Coast [full list will be about eight sites]

2005-07 Tahoe
Grimes Point petroglyphs

2005-09 DtSA Part IV [Amalfi Coast] Sardinia
[Pompeii, Nat. Mus Naples; Paestum] [full Sard. list will be about 15 sites]

Date?
Cancun: local ruins, Chichen Itza

Isn't that fun? And that's not to mention the historic sites we've seen here, either: Plymouth Plantation, Old Sturbridge Village, Colonial Willamsburg, Roanoke, Loisiana plantations, dozens of historic houses.... Oh, or the sheila-na-gig we found with Jimit. We can pop up to Hanover, Pennsylvania (with a quick stop at one of our two local Mason-Dixon markers) anytime for a taste of whichever CAMRA is on the hand pump. Or some of that Scottish heather ale we never did find in any of the pubs in Scotland. Tennants, eh? Ahem. In short, Americans do have a concern for the past, both at home and abroad.

It's not the concern that I don't get, it's the grumpy attitude coupled with the seeming inability to come to any practical consensus on what to do about the tossers and the apathetic. Not that I'd expect any truly effective plans to result: tossers and louts we'll have always with us. But rarely if ever do I see here any positive, enthusiastic mention of public education programs to support, organizations to join, plans to foster or just agreed upon ways to politely clean up the trash left at the sites. Nope, just whine, grumble and moan.

This is a fun place.

nigelswift Jul 16, 2006 10:11:12

Replying to BuckyE

Bucky, yes of course I'm aware of your huge travels. Previously, I got the impression that that perspective had made you think we were concerned over minutiae and petty issues when there were far greater instances of damage elsewhere. If so, I accept you're right, but don't feel guilty about it - it may be a parochial attitude to obsess about your own back yard but that doesn't mean the back yard shouldn't be cared for. I get the impression that, despite the parlous state of our back yard there are more people caring for it than there are for instance in Ireland and France, so good for us.

And yes, i meant to say, it's your history too. As is Ireland's and Spain's and Portugal's I expect. Where have you found people trying to look after your history best?!

Not that we're doing much of a job. You say you don't get "the seeming inability to come to any practical consensus on what to do about the tossers and the apathetic" but then you supply the reason - "Not that I'd expect any truly effective plans to result: tossers and louts we'll have always with us". There you are, that's why. And you might have mentioned that the apathetic are in the vast majority and that government and industry make damn sure they stay like that.

BUT, faced with that utter impossibility people here DO do their bit.

1.) You say you rarely if ever see here any agreed ways "to politely clean up the trash left at the sites". Well, how come the sites aren't neck high in trash? Because people from here and elsewhere keep removing it! They just do it, no agreed plans needed.

2.) www.heritageaction.org does exactly what you call for. It was conceived, hatched and designed right here and many of us are members.

3.) Much the same goes for Timewatch - which is running probably the biggest campaign in defence of an ancient site there has ever been, anywhere.

4.) And what about World Heritage Alert, that deals with anything and everything including Native American stuff. That might reasonably be expected to have arisen anywhere in the world, but it happens to be being run by a prominent member from right here. And he moans like hell.

So yes, we all whine, grumble and moan. Maybe its a British thing. But it just ain't the case that we also do nowt. I think this is a case of cultural misunderstanding. You get the idea that whining, grumbling and moaning means we're not having fun, whereas in fact the precise opposite is true! ;)

moss Jul 16, 2006 10:57:53

Replying to BuckyE

"This is a fun place."

Should'nt worry about all the stick waving, moaning and grumbling its just playing to the wider world...
Think Shakespeare, or which it always reminds me off the "greek chorus" behind Auden's Thomas Becketts play, the wailing and wringing of hands at the terrible state of the world. ;)
In actual fact there are laws to protect our landscape and monuments, its just that everyone has to put up an enormous fight to see that they are enacted, some will even go as far as laying down in front of the bulldozers to stop roads, as people in America if I remember rightly lived in the trees to stop them being chopped down.
As for litter at sites, theres probably lots of opinions based on personal perceptions, and not everyone agreeing as always....

Littlestone Jul 16, 2006 17:20:59

Replying to BuckyE

...here's a partial list I started to draw up for a little writing project...

Your list is very interesting Bucky, and no doubt most subscribers to TMA and similar Forums could supply equally interesting lists. Places on my own list would include Pu Yi's last palace in Manchuria, parts of the Forbidden City in Beijing where few foreigners have ever been; the palaces and temples of Korea and Japan; the tombs and temples of Egypt; churches and cathedrals throughout Europe and, oh yes, the downtown bars of Boston, the no-go areas of Washington, the woods of upstate New York and even the sands of Waikiki Beach. So what?

The point is that your list and my list, and probably the even more fascinating lists that other folks here could compile, are places we have chosen to visit, they are not the ancient and sacred places that surround us on a daily basis; they are not places that we see every time we walk a mile or drive a few more on our way to work. They are not the places that our ancestors in these islands built and sanctified and that is the difference between your society and ours.

As Nigel eloquent said above, "There's nothing virgin (here), you can scoop up a handful of soil from anywhere and have a fair chance of seeing something of your ancestors. What an inspiring stage upon which to perform our fleeting dance." I have nothing more to add to that... oh well, just one more thing then...

"This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you our land you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells the events and memories of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father."

Chief Seattle

PS And don't get me started on real ale - at least not until I've recovered from a recent encounter with Hooligan's Revenge and the [/b]Bishop's Farewell[/b] :-)