Pick the bones out of this

Stonehenge 180

Image by suave harv

nigelswift Feb 4, 2006 11:26:43

It seems to me that the need to improve the A303 has been presented as an opportunity to improve Stonehenge, and mixing the two issues has been to the detriment of the latter. Not the least of the disadvantages is that there will be no improvement to Stonehenge until the main scheme is resolved, and that looks like it is still decades away.

So I was thinking, isn't there a case for putting the A303 on one side and calling for some obvious improvements in the short term, quite independent of the main issue? How about this -

1.) Rip up the bloody A344 together with its hedges and fences and turf it over. Hooray!
2.) Demolish the bloody visitors centre, every stick of it, transport it a few miles away and have a huge bonfire and festival with lots of beer.
3.) Rip up the adjacent carpark and returf it. Yay!
4.) Pull down the damn fence that imprisons the monument.
5.) Abandon all talk of a £60m new visitors centre. Who needs an interactive cyber experience? EH, that's who.
6.) Stop pretending that "free access to the stones" is practicable. Keep to the existing "movable ropes" system, with limited full access in the evenings. There's no way that a million people a year can trample in there - unless you want it laid with astro-turf, which I don't.
7.) Insist that anyone who applies for a job as a uniformed curator undergoes psychological profiling so as to weed out those of an officious bastard tendency.
8.) Set up an ample area for visitor parking three, four or six miles to the North or West, together with modest interpretation displays and privately run retail and food outlets.
9.) Run ample low impact shuttle buses to approach from the North West over variable strengthened trackways, terminating at a pick up and alighting point adjacent to the pedestrian tunnel.
10.) Add some toilets and nowt else.
10.) Charge a tenner for the whole deal. I can't for the life of me see why there should be so much moaning about that. It would raise ten million a year which ought to go a long way to making the whole of the improvements self-financing.

FourWinds Feb 4, 2006 12:14:14

Replying to nigelswift

As much as I hate it personally I think the Newgrange approach is the answer. Distant visitors' centre, shuttle buses and a fixed length, fixed size accompanied tour.

Problem is with numbers. I think about 1000 or so a day go through Newgrange and nearly twice that much visit Knowth. Stonehenge must get more. Only 50 people are allowed at Newgrange at any one time and 80 at Knowth. This does mean that on busy days if you arrive mid morning you may end up waiting around the visitors' centre until late afternoon. People do seem to tolerate this quite readily, though.

Littlestone Feb 4, 2006 14:52:40

Replying to nigelswift

Excellent Nigel. Keep it simple!

FourWinds suggestion to, "...arrive by shuttle from one direction and then leave by a different one, giving you a good fairly long distance view of the monuments from different directions." is also beautifully simple.

Basically it's a Park & Ride scheme with only the necessary requirements (toilets) at the Stonehenge end and a good visitor centre at the park end (with space enough to grow).

moss Feb 4, 2006 14:58:18

Replying to nigelswift

nitpicking -you did ask.... Lots of people come from Bath, language students etc, mostly bussed already, and theres often a premium on time to see other sites, could they be fitted in with the scheme and the high cost. Tour operators will be grumbling no doubt. They should build an eco-visitor centre, turf roof and set into the ground so that it blends with the landscape..

Jo-anne Feb 4, 2006 16:43:10

Replying to nigelswift

8.) Set up an ample area for visitor parking three, four or six miles to the North or West, together with modest interpretation displays and privately run retail and food outlets.

Sounds excellent, this way the visitors will be more spread out, pulling strain off, and ensuring the visitors get a larger and wider experience.

Lubin Feb 4, 2006 17:00:05

Replying to nigelswift

That is all very well but the roads will still be there with many cars going by every hour. What if you do not want to go into the stones but just walk the cursus, or visit the surrounding barrows. This is what I prefer to do as I don't see why I should pay EH to walk inside a fenced are with hundreds of others when they can be viewed peacefully from Normanton Down.

Peace, Lubin

VenerableBottyBurp Feb 5, 2006 14:03:40

Replying to nigelswift

Good thinking Nigel.

This proposal echoes what I put to an agreeing crowd of archaeos and historians at Manchester Metropolitan Uni shortly after it was proposed by the Tories to link Stonehenge improvements to the road scheme. The politicians made this move for 2 reasons only - to play the budget card any way they wanted to (it is/is not within the scope of the scheme/budget), and to save face by linking the fact that the facilities were a disgrace to 'road noise' rather than decades of mismanagement (If you search the archives there is no mention of road noise until this point despite traffic chaos during the Queens Jubilee year and road works mayhem for a decade after).

Nigel's proposals also coincide with proposals virtually the same by two Salisbury District Councillors, Ian West and Colin Mills, who obviously want to see improvements to the A303, but in addition want to cancel the Countess East Theme Park centre, and build a visitor reception at Fargo North whilst removing the A344 and all the carp near the stones.

Unsurprisingly EH reaction is to pour cold water on it, and are appealing against Salisbury Council's refusal of planning permission for the monstrosity at Countess East.

We all know the cost is going to knock anything else on the head so lets get behind Salisbury Council to fight EH's appeal and stop EH living in cuckoo land where nothing gets done for another century. Following HA's success in getting a public meeting for Silbury, this appears a possible area of HA consensus and if so a quite correct vehicle to jump-on.

VBB

cropredy Feb 5, 2006 14:28:41

Replying to nigelswift

Tall and silent is the henge of all ?,
Its resident crows cry , caw, caw , caw,
Little moles dig so deep, amongst the flint, their paws become sore, sore,
The sign says Shut , at the henge of all ?,
Pay your money or you cant see ?,
But I am poor, says he,
Surely if the henge were silent and free, Then all the people would say cor, cor, cor ?
K.

konaman Feb 5, 2006 22:15:00

Replying to nigelswift

seems too good to be true!

what do the 'authorities' think?

(realising that income steams diminish)

PeterH Feb 6, 2006 08:33:43

Replying to nigelswift

Maybe - just maybe I shall live long enough to see silence return to the Stones :o)

Are the Stones ever silent now?
Does the lark still climb and the kestrel stoop
While snails embrace in slimy love?
Is there yet a silent second when
No jet planes scream or lorries growl
Or tour guides tell it wrong again?

Are the Stones ever silent now?
Does the harebell ring and the stonechat chat
While bees drink deep from golden gorse?
Is there yet a precious moment when
No cam'ras click or turnstiles clack
Or ice creams melt in sticky hand?

Are the Stones ever silent now?
Does the solstice crowd and the Druids' chant
Not know respect and silent prayer?
Is there yet a switched off mobile 'phone?
Can people come on foot - alone
With no barbed wire or entrance fee?

Are the Stones ever silent now?
Does the solstice sun and the wand'rin moon
Not tell the Stones to wait a while?
Wait 'till the noisy parasites
Are dust on the wind that they create
And silence shall come to the Stones.

cropredy Feb 6, 2006 17:36:13

Replying to nigelswift

Millenium letter.

How are you keeping old silbury?,
Are they bothering about you?,
They are still using this silly time that those Italian blokes brought,
And did you see them French ones, well,
Do you know , they had no respect at all,
Knocked down most of my cousins sacred places,
Stuck up gothic things in their place, no taste my dear,
Had you heard about my jail sentence,
Dont know what I did, and the guards,well, They look like little Adolfs, they demand money, just so that people can look at me,
Not like the old days eh, you me and the girl up at west Kennet, wow, what a girl,and them circles at Avebury, they could buzz the party along, ah, the good old days,
These people now are more like sheep, very odd lot, if they stick a notice anywhere, they all go bah, bah, and do as their Norman masters say,
Miss those people in the funny white gear, they were a good laugh, the things they used to get up to, I could tell a tale or two.
Late news, they are planning to get a giant race of moles, and dig a bloody great tunnel under me, what ever next?
Keep warm dear, you used to be so lovely and sparkly white, have you still got that silly green jumper on,
Write again in a thousand years, they may have made a few improvements by then, some good ideas about at the moment, hope they can hear the swifts, above the tanks roar.
S.H

laresident Feb 7, 2006 04:04:51

Replying to nigelswift

I don't have my finger on the pulse being geographicaly challenged but this is the best idea I have heard for Stonehenge.
Tearing up roads, car parks, even buildings and landscaping with nature is remarkably easy as I have witnessed in LA. where such things happen if the money or the political will works.

PeterH Feb 7, 2006 13:06:23

Replying to nigelswift

It's time to have your say about Stonehenge. No use moaning afterwards. See here and then write to the Darling Boy!

http://www.savestonehenge.org.uk/actnow.html

cropredy Feb 7, 2006 22:58:23

Replying to nigelswift

Obtained a booklet Today entitled "Stonehenge", dated 1953, ministry of works, priced 1s, 6d. net.
By, R.S.Newall, F.S.A ( freud ).
The very first words are,
"The visitor to stonehenge will most probably have walked to the centre of stonehenge before he begins to read this guide.
Oh no he wont.
He cant get near it Mr Newall.
It does have a fabulous map, in the back, 20x 24 inchs, of the site, and reference to other earlier maps, the first dated as a 14th century manuscript, in corpus christie college , cambridge, showing a complete henge?, with a tale of how Merlin moved it here in 483 by art not by force from ireland..
The next map by Loggan 1675- 1700 is said to be in the Salisbury, S, Wilts, and Blackmore museum?.
K.

VenerableBottyBurp Feb 8, 2006 10:56:08

Replying to nigelswift

Possibly disastrous decision announced the inthe Western Daily Wed. Feb. 8th. Salisbury councillors have asked EH to resubmit their plan for a visitor centre at Countess East as one of their original objections was the impact of the land train which they could not inspect properly as there wasn't access to the land being farmed. Having now seen it they want to reconsider…

I suggest bombarding the two councillors that have a plan similar to Nigel's with letters of support

VBB