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BrigantesNation B
BrigantesNation Apr 26, 2004 13:46:30
Replying to morfe

Ogma - fabled Irish creator of Ogham

Ogmios - 2nd C Gaulish local god linked with Herecles and the god of eloquence.

Don't assume these are one and the same. The Irish god/figure cannot be linked to herecles - the Roman's never had an impact on Irish Celtic religion. Similarly, Herecles was linked to a large number of local deities, this does not make them Ogmios.

Technically, there are no links between Ogham and Ogmios, they have similar dounding names yes and it may be that one is derived from the other, but to my mind it is gods like Ogmios that kept the pre Roman people pre-literate and therefore Ogma is a slight problem.

The gaulish sign for Ogmios is a chain between one persons tongue and anothers ears (the follower has a direct link to his ears from the mouth of the elloquent one). images such as a club, lionskin etc. are Roman Herecles affectations with respect to Ogmios and were also paced upon other local gods.

M morfe
morfe Apr 26, 2004 14:30:48
Replying to BrigantesNation

"Technically, there are no links between Ogham and Ogmios, they have similar dounding names yes and it may be that one is derived from the other"

But what would a 'technical' link be? I can't see how one can be derived from the other and not be in some way linked?

"According to both Gallic and Irish myths Ogma was a warrior god, depicted as a wrinkled old man, wearing lion's skin cloak, carrying a bow and club"

I think Ogma (and Ogmios) are etymologically linked by 'Ag' (carve), so 'Ogham' could have come before Ogma rather than vice versa? I suppose it's possible that Ogmios and Ogma have no technical link, but the similarity is so profound that , as with so many deities, they are synonymously linked by the original word/thought/symbolism from which they were born, or from which they communicated their existence?

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