The Modern Antiquarian. Stone Circles, Ancient Sites, Neolithic Monuments, Ancient Monuments, Prehistoric Sites, Megalithic MysteriesThe Modern Antiquarian

Head To Head   The Modern Antiquarian   General Discussion Forum Start a topic | Search
The Modern Antiquarian
Re: Mudlark finds Neolithic skull by Thames
15 messages
Select a forum:
Monganaut wrote:
Don't forget, not all hunter gatherers embraced farming initially. I recall reading somewhere (I forget where exactly, maybe it was something on TV) that in the early years of the Neolithic/farming revolution, that actually those who remained hunter gatherers remained healthier, having a more varied diet than those early farmers who chose to put their eggs in one basket (so to speak). I'm sure those early farmers continued to hunt and gather as before, but being tied to one area, not following the seasonal herds left them at a disadvantage as to variety and availability of dietary resources. And I suppose, it's a lot of effort and organisation setting up a slash and burn field system every few years from woodlands or heath land. One of the dilemmas still unexplained by archaeologists/historians is the vast Neolithic/Bronze Age clearances that went on. We can still see the results of this today, esp in upland areas. Maybe it's as simple as under estimation of the population of the UK at the time, though I doubt this is the case.

It's a nice idea that we lived in harmony with nature and each other, but as Cope says in the Mod Ant (and I'm paraphrasing massively here) if they had the tech and resources we have, they'd have been using them. I'm no believer in that 'lost Eden' attitude. We've always been warlike apes who distrust outsiders. It's just that the general populous was so few, we didn't meet that many 'others' to have it out with. It's easier to live in 'harmony' with nature when there ain't so many of us fighting for resources. 'Civilization and trade forced us into contact with other tribes/nations/ whatever, and in a way forced us to get along if we wanted what they were offering, and vice versa, it's far from our natural way of being. Anthropologists have suggested that the ideal size of a human community is about 30 peeps. More than that causes stresses in relations. Which goes some way to explaining what an anomaly towns and cities are...they are still not good for us. Most hamlets and villages until fairly recent history were pretty small, obv's historically the Romans had larger towns and cities by the terms of the day, but those soon shrank after they left the UK.

Also, do you think we'd be as successful these days without the advent of huge game changers like antibiotics. Not so long ago a slight infection may have been enough to see us off. Just look at the UK (or even global) population growth charts from the mid 1850's onwards. With the likes of sanitation etc it's a steep ascent, and the curve is off like a rocket once antibiotics hit the scene. But i digress.....



Thank you for the rich, thought provoking reply. I'm totally down with it. Your reference to the 30 max population size for peaceful communities is fascinating and new to me. Are you aware of any reputable statistic that estimates populations, either in Britain or globally, before and after the Neolithic?

Certainly, farming was - in Mesolithic terms - the original sin (again, paraphrasing R. Bradley), an affront to Mother Earth. Permanent settlements lead to greater populations, and with a greater concentration of people the birth of a hierarchy and a need to create monuments to claim the landscape - Bradley discusses early Neolithic henges and passage graves in this context, where ties to the ancestral dead legitimate one's ties to the land. This syncs with what I've read about the remarkable phenomenon of cave art in Franco-Cantabria - Chauvet, Lascaux, etc. - during the Upper Paleolithic. The theory is that during that late stage of the Ice Age, conditions for good hunting and fishing were limited to that area of Southern France and Northern Spain, forcing Paleolithic hunter-gatherers to compete for a smaller area of land and resources. This situation fostered "prematurely" permanent settlements, and as a result, a more complex social organization and culture capable of such peerless marvels as the cave paintings, which we might interpret in a way similar to Neolithic monuments in so far as they establish a group's ancestral rights to a specific area and the exploitation of its resources. Politics and religion really do go hand in hand.


Reply | with quote
Posted by Zariadris
23rd February 2019ce
19:34

Messages in this topic: