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Re: New study challenges timeline
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Evergreen Dazed wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Evergreen Dazed wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Evergreen Dazed wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Evergreen Dazed wrote:
[quote="nigelswift"]

I personally wouldn't want to see 'The Sensible Forum' and 'The Way-out' Forum'. It doesn't feel right to me. This subject is about us, all of us, and where we come from!


Personally I think it is about "them " , and what you or I think is not really that important .


Yes, I see what you mean, but we 'are' them, if you get my drift.


looking at the start of this thread and the way that it has shifted i.e. originally about the problems sorting out the sequence of events at a monument =them , to the later comments , mostly us and regularly " I " , exemplifies the difference for me .
No coincidence that the dodgy stuff tends to be very "I" based too, not really about the people of the past but more often how someone usually an "I " has an ability to garner info that is otherwise unavailable to everyone else . There is never any evidence to support the ability or the info , what is important is the "I" and their "abilities " .This is also coupled with a disdain for those who actually do garner the genuine info often relatively anonymously .


But it is an education of its own kind.
Some human beings (lots actually) find something, for want of a better word, 'correct' or perhaps safe about the "I" thing, even with the total absence of proof.
Its very human. Look at world religion. More "I's" than you could shake a stick at.

I have my own thoughts, of course, but when we look at the millions involved in religion we are looking at us, and at 'them'.
To discover when one of "them" placed an amber bead in a barrow is a scientific process. To discover "them" as thought processes we can look at ourselves, and at the combination of posts and ideas on this fourm.
Some of the people who love these monuments can't tell you about radiocarbon but they can communicate ideas of a different nature and it's up to you to listen, or not.

I believe the human brain has many dormant, or perhaps dulled, functions. Why do I believe that? I'm not sure. But maybe it's why i'm willing to at least think about some of the stuff the "I" people offer.
It might be 99% crap, I don't know. But I "sense" (dodgy?) there is some truth to be got at and sometimes the "I"s feel close to it. I don't know why that should be. Could be an illusion. I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that any old stuff can fall in. But, surely, my 'modern' thinking, in that sense, is just as flawed?
Did the religious and ritual aspects of Neolithic life follow any sort of 'logic'?

I admit to knowing nothing.


The “I “ I was referring to is quite distinct from that what is found in religion where these “I”s are individuals who are subsumed into something greater than the sum of their parts .
Any “I” who behaves like the extreme “I” I refer to e.g. the those attempting to convince others that they have an insight that the rest are incapable of e.g. a Messiah type mentality , would be considered a heretic in most religious communities , there are some where it may be welcomed as long as the “insights “ don't disturb party thinking in which case they might be considered prophets .
The mentality of the “I “ type may give us an insight into a particular character type found in all periods and communities but we know that already , what they won't do is provide an insight into the prehistoric community in general which is possibly something they might claim . That is the extreme “I” my earlier post was simply about my preferences for a less subjective approach ,i.e. “ Personally I think it is about "them " , and what you or I think is not really that important . “ you and I being less extreme .

If we want to understand the thinking of peoples with different mental lives to our own we have to empathise , where the logic and reasoning comes in is dealing with the dodgy stuff not dealing with the earlier concepts .Whatever may or not be dormant the extreme “I” s , who also tend to be more vociferous have had plenty of opportunity to provide the goods ,they get away with it in religion , new prophets etc starting off their own sects etc , you don't need much evidence for that , but what have they produced in our sphere ?


Would you not consider the extreme "I" to have been THE personality type, model, that generated the motivation for such incredible work in prehistory?
When we look the ditch and bank and stones at Avebury for exmaple we cannot, surely, be looking at the work of "individuals" or an idea arrived at via a flow of "logical" thought and consensus?
I don't think the extreme "I" is necessarily considered a heretic.
I believe force of personality would have been just as evident then as now.
There are people who want to have power over others and there are people who want or have to follow.
Modern science has empowered us all, we are able to confidently make the decision that the person on the internet forum claiming to be able to control the weather by will is almost certainly wrong, but what of the people of the Neolithic?
The modern "I"s produce nothing by way of evidence for most claims but isnt it remarkable how people (in general) engage with them?
People ask them for proof (Like they believe that they might be able to produce it!) rather than ignoring them, which, you would think, would be the logical answer.
As you say, the "I" character type has always been around, but I don't agree that that fact doesn't provide us with an insight into the prehistoric community. I think it is perhaps providing a dim light by which to view those societies, and why the 'way-out' posts here can be valuable, if not for the claims themselves, but the way in which the claims are made?


They can become the religious or more likely cult leaders , Joseph Smith , Jim Jones, David Koresh , modern US examples but they are more likely to become perpheral . Quite possibly instrumental in the monument building but community and or powerful less prophetic and more warrior or priestly type seems more like it for me .
I dunno but imagine that the community that built Avebury would have been quite conservative and anyone stepping out of line cosmologically would have had a hard time ,warrior stuff might be different "let's bomb Stonehenge " more likely to be effective than "Your god is wrong ,listen to me " stuff .
Maybe some people need that bit of mystery , if there's no religion they turn to the alt stuff .
I don't really get the claimants manner rather than content being a helpful insight into the past anymore than anyone else's manner .


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tiompan
Posted by tiompan
4th December 2012ce
13:56

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Re: New study challenges timeline (Evergreen Dazed)

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Re: New study challenges timeline (Evergreen Dazed)

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