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thought the tinpot looked like a cackling idiot, Bonnie Greer was great and Jack Straw looked almost human in relation to you know who.
Seen the Daily Mail poll thing that said it was a PR victory, not sure if that was before or after the show.

What'd you think?
Just thought I'd start a separate thread cos the other one's getting pretty long.

Stevo

Well I didn't watch it but it was all on the radio and in the papers. Gotta be a PR coup - he shouldn't have been there in the first place. Not gonna look but I bet they're all masturbating on the nazi websites about how he held is own in the left wing Marxist onslaught like the brave Nazi martyr he is. As far as I can tell he didn't make any amazing gaffes. Fucking circus. And the BBC have been right dining out on this too.

He wasn't gonna start seig heiling was he?

x

I thought the man came across as EXACTLY what he is. NOBODY with an ounce of sense could ever see the man to be a serious contender in politics. I'm sure there are some people in this country who ARE stupid enough to vote for the man and his odious party but they are the minority.

I really enjoyed seeing the man brought down by every other member of the panel AND the vast majority of the audience. He came across as desperately inconsistent (even for a politician!), really rather thick and as a blatant liar, even denying having said most of the disgusting diatribe he has been recorded as spouting on U-tube and so on. He was a giggling imbecile who was unable to defend himself, his party or his politics, a PR coup for the BNP it WASN'T. It was a PR coup for the British Public, demonstrating that the vast majority of folk in this fair isle enjoy living in a multicultural society and wouldn't change it for the world. And yes, I agree with Mojojojo; Jack Straw DID look good in comparison, and that's saying something!

One final word, if we DO indeed live in a socialist democracy then we HAVE to accept that an integral component of that is freedom of speech, even for twisted bigoted fuckwits of the likes of Dick Griffin (sorry but him being called Dick was the highlight of the show for me!) We don't have to agree, we can use his expression of free speech to show him to be wrong, but we CANNOT gag and silence these people, the public have a right to hear their point of view. We're not all so stupid that we'll be converted by his facism, most people, as I say, would be thoroughly disgusted by what the man says, but we need to know there IS an element in our society that do hold such revolting views. Then, I guess, it's our responsibility to reason with these people and try to explain to them the massive benefits of living in a multicultural society. And if they STILL don't get it and want everyone that can't trace their roots back to Ice Age Britain deported, it's our right to tell them that they're bigoted ignorant arsewipes.

He was very very average. Not a great mind, not a great orator, not a great advert for his party. Weak on the holocaust. Confused on religion. Unconvincing on immigration. Unsure of himself on anything else.

He had one or two well rehearsed sound bites but lets face it his politics were mainstream as recently 35 years ago. For many Tories and a fair few in the Labour movement his form of bigotry would have been second nature in the 70s. This is not the NF of Martin Webster (what happened to him?), Lady Birdwood et al.

Of course Griffin is very much to the Far Right what Cameron is to the rank and file Tory mentality - the vanilla version of the true rank n file position. I am also quite sure he is right when he says he is hated by British Nazis. He is the Kenny G of Nazis, so keen to appear a reasonable middle-grounder that he ceases to have any real meaning as a public figure other than as a pinata for the far left.

The BBC did right to let him on as that is what 1m votes buys you and, lets face it, he has fewer and less serious convictions on his record than some serving MPs.

It wont win him many votes. It wont lose him many votes. Anyone hoping that he would sprout horns and start eating babies would have been disppointed.

The protesters should have stayed at home with a good book.

I didn't see Question Time as I was out n' about but I caught half of a tragi-comedy on Sky 3 last night called BNP Wives. If anyone would attempt to argue that the BNP were credible in anyway they should be made to watch this mix of the odious and farcical. The bulk of the people came over as fairly hapless, wanting to be led, and desperate for something to cling onto regardless of ideology. They seemed exploited to me.

Interestingly, some of the footage was from the BNP festival in Derbyshire that Ratnic01 mentioned and the film crew were asked to leave before the evening 'festivities' commenced because some of the attendees might want to "let their hair down" as the night went on and were concerned about what they might say on camera when more 'relaxed'. Hmmmmmm.

As I mentioned on the main thread about this, I was annoyed at all the panel except Bonnie Greer.

Not much debating at all...
Griffin couldn't explain himself on most things, Straw and Huhne didn't (or couldn't) comment on immigration when they had the chance, as it's such a taboo subject for them, plus, they didn't want to steal any headlines of course, even when left with plenty of opportunity put forward by the audience members....and then there is 'baroness' tory Sayeeda Warsi, who cleverly skirted her usual homophobia.

Yup, more like 'Circus Time'!

I'm dismayed it went ahead. Which is not to suggest that Griffin put in a good performance. He certainly didn't. But I never expected him to. That was never the issue.

You have to understand, I'm looking at this in the context of the next decade or so. It's taken the National Front decades to evolve to the point where their suited representatives now get invited on Question Time. This was never about an overnight bump in the polls, but about how the fascist voice slowly but surely enters mainstream political debate.

And in the context of the next decade... I believe we'll see a fertile breeding ground for fascism as the global economy begins to absorb the fact that the days of "growth" are coming to an end. I think resource depletion will become a mainstream and frightening idea over the next decade and even if we succeed in shifting to a sustainable model, the transition period could very well involve major social upheaval. The kind of environment that the far right tends to exploit. The very last thing we should be doing as the global economy teeters on the brink is to be inviting the BNP, and those like them, into mainstream debates.

Just before Question Time last night the BBC News discussed the issue themselves. And the language used very clearly implied that this would be the first of several invites extended to the BNP leader. This very fact... that the BNP leader gets regular invitations to debate with the other parties before an audience of millions... makes it far more likely that Griffin will be replaced by someone more effective at the job. And you can pretty much guarantee that by the BNP's third appearance on Question Time, Dimbleby won't be dedicating 90% of the show to picking them apart.

If you'll forgive the cliché, I fear we just watched as the thin end of the wedge was inserted.

I'm also irritated by how reasonable he made Jack Straw appear. Even on immigration (yes, he was uncomfortable and evasive on the issue, but he was sitting one seat away from Nick Griffin and so appeared reasonable by default). I found myself clapping and saying "Well said Jack Straw" at one point. That's plain terrifying! :-)

I was actually quite disappointed with the entire panel other than Straw. Bonnie Greer made a couple of biting remarks, but academics and intellectuals never do well on Question Time because the quick-fire format doesn't suit them. We're a verbose lot, us academics, and we tend not to do sound-bites all that well.

The tory Baroness annoyed the hell out of me. Her contempt for Griffin simply came across as that same kind of contempt that tory aristocrats hold for most of us. Sure, Griffin deserved it, but it was a powerful reminder of just how obnoxious the Conservatives are, and how close to the BNP they can sometimes be (she seemed to be on the same page as Griffin on at least one subject... both even using that tiresome phrase "homosexuality being taught in schools").

The LibDem guy was pretty forgettable all in all.

Only Straw seemed to channel his outrage at Griffin into something worthwhile. He's either a very good actor, or else there was a lot of genuine and barely repressed rage in Straw's delivery.

Overall though, I'm worried that the BBC set a terrible precedent last night. It'll be a long time before we know for sure, but why take the risk?

Griffin did not come out triumphant at all.
Having said that, I did not expect every single question bar the last-minute one to be centred around his lot.
Issues of the day are the usual topics.
THE BBC said they'd show impartiality, which they didn't, but maybe for the better, if ye get me.
I was a bit bored of the audience Jerry Springer style whooping, and the guy who almost (on purpose) called him 'Dick 'Griffin did no favours to the good fight either.
In Griffin's own words though, the BNP aren't fussed any more about skin colour. Surely a vote loser for all those who love em for that alone.
He was bricking it, shaking like a leaf all the way through.
A bit of a pantomime, but somehow, useful as well.

x

Interesting response here...

http://msnuktv.spaces.live.com/?GT1=61503

This is either going to make Griffin look like a pathetic feckless whinger, or legitimise him in the eyes of those who turn to fascism because they feel there is no voice for them in mainstream politics... or both.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20091023/tuk-bnp-leader-to-launch-bbc-complaint-dba1618.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

Probably been posted already but this is closer to what he meant.

Brian

Why have us in Scotland continually got to watch the BNP, Tories, Libs, Labour, UKIP, all British parties on our TV. We're a multi racial country or trying to be and Britain drags us down, bring on the next election. Britain/Engerland would be much better without us!!

I watched it all on YouTube, as the BBC blocks all access to its programmes here in the States.

I really had no idea who most of these folks are, but Nick Griffin seems to do a lot of back-pedaling. I'd bet if he were surrounded by his "troupe", he'd be spouting his racist rhetoric much more confidently. He appeared to be assuming the position of being victimized in newspaper and news headlines, and not at all culpable of his own actions.

As an American, I don't know much about British politics, and I surely wouldn't presume to give much of my own two pence about it, but as a side note, I really enjoyed trying to guess the locality of the accents of the people in the audience!

I think any future encounters of such a mainstream, public nature with the BNP, if it happens, should make some effort to engage them on just what their policies are on other issues of Government are - transport, health, the arts, sport, economy, the general mechanics of governance. It seems pretty clear to me that they are such one track party that Griffin would flounder completely when faced with issues aside from immigration.

Obviously, it is essential to continue to attack their bigoted line, but I think it would serve to reveal to an even greater extent just how half-baked and clueless they really are as a 'political party'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_EpcW6ucbo