Re: Carol Thatch | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Carol Thatch

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shanshee_allures Feb 7, 2009 10:50:38

Replying to dave clarkson

Well you see, Top Gear sort of advertises cars so is on bed with all sorts of big car makers in a way.

But the BBC don't do adverts (?) but Top Gear has millions of fans so Clarkson like Moyles can say WHATEVER-THE-HELL-HE-WANTS.

Infact, Clarkson sort of has hair like a Golliwog. One that's been dragged through a puddle of pee mind you.

For bad or good Public Enemy et al. reclaimed certain words and to a degree diminished them so maybe we have to try our best to do that. Or be forever militantly indignant and get nowhere.

Then along come the white middle classes speaking on behalf of an entire people and say 'oh it's ok for THEM to say that word'... What do they mean by THEM?

See how fecking knicker twisty it all gets?

Oh and Carol Thatch still works for the BBC in other capacities so WTF? but when is the whole corporations going to stop being so 'white' in other respects?

Offsetting some guilt, perhaps?

dave clarkson Feb 7, 2009 14:03:22

Replying to shanshee_allures

...yeah agree with you

I also think that there's a certain amount of bullying, making people feel 'accountable', spitefullness etc about the constantly pulling people up for anything that might appear slightly offensive. It does seem to be a very british middle class conservative zone - very New Labour, very polite.

I remember going to see Jo Brand live on several occasions in the clubs and she was incredibly offensive to people (mainly males) in the audience including the appearance of one of my mates. I didn't get offended by it as it takes a lot to offend me anyway, but can't stand the double standard. Ben Elton - he's another fucker.

Merrick Feb 10, 2009 10:54:05

Replying to shanshee_allures

I think you're right that Clarkson and Moyles get away with worse. I strongly suspect that it is, as you suggest, that they're a fucksight more popular than Thatcher.

I also wonder whether it makes any odds that they're blokes and blokes are meant to be all boorish and table-thumpy, whereas women are meant to be more sensitive.

Additionally, I think that Thatcher hit on the top-scorer in the hierarchy of oppression. It's much more acceptable to discriminate against someone because of their sexuality or gender than it is because of their ethnicity.

Imagine if Moyles was as racist as he is sexist, his head would roll before long.

shanshee_allures wrote:

Then along come the white middle classes speaking on behalf of an entire people and say 'oh it's ok for THEM to say that word'... What do they mean by THEM?

I think that's pretty clear. 'Them' refers to the people who were denigrated by the word in question.

As a white person my use of nigger is totally different that a black person using it.

Whilst oppression and discrimination can and do cut both ways, it's a matter of historical precedent and social norms.

In a society where people are denigrated for not being white, male, English, heterosexual, financially solvent, etc, then jibes based on these things carry more weight and need to be picked up on.

Jo Brand may well be sexist to men. That is not something to condone (so now *everybody* is criticised for things they didn't choose about themselves? Thanks Jo), but it is different to being sexist against women, as that compounds the already degraded position of women.