Doors vs Joy Division

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IanB I
IanB Dec 15, 2007 10:19:52
Replying to philiph20

philiph20 wrote:
At last someone else in the country who thinks New order are absolutely shite, they are along with retro crap like The Stone Roses esp Ian Brown given an almost mythical status by music hacks over here particularly the NME , it seems that they are immune to criticism which rankles when they are compared to JD an absolute load of manure.
I have taken a few forum spankings for holding the same opinion!

The Doors made some extraordinary records (as did JD) and were quickly eclipsed by their own lead singer (as were JD) and were much more interesting live than on record (as arguably were JD). JD were probably heading for a creative dead-end by the time their singer died. I suspect they were one record away from Curtis going solo. The Doors were already past that point when Jimbo killed himself.

Premature death is a great help when it comes to becomming an iconic figure.

Who knows, if Nick Drake had lived he might have ended up rolling his jacket sleeves past his elbows. just like John Martyn, and making records with Phil Collins. Jimi would have ended up in Weather Report and and Janis Joplin would be making showtune albums with Rod!

As for New Order, for me they are one of the long list of British indie acts who plundered the US club scene for insipration leaving both sides worse off in the process. Play "Rock The House", "Don't Make Me Wait" or pretty much anything from the West End catalogue next to "Blue Monday" and tell me who had access to the true dancefloorpoison. It's like comparing early Stones sides with the Chess catalogue. Entertaining but ultimately a pale shadow. They had to get past their influences to make original music. Not sure NO ever got beyond their influences.

Someone like Larry Levan name checking New Order is like Muddy Waters doing the same for Mick n Keef. What Levan and New Order have in common is that Larry Levan was a huge Krautrock fan (regularly playing Kraut tracks in his DJ set) and both he and New Order owed a hell of a lot to Moroder and to Neu. I Feel Love is one of the great Krautrock sides.

Saying that if you are still in your 30s I can understand why New Order, Happy Mondays, Stone Roses and The Smiths have that iconic status. It is a bit like people of my age who can't let go of some 60s and early 70s acts who are frankly a bit over-rated but have achieved a special status. Big Star anyone? Skip Spence? Brian Wilson? Gram Parsons? The Band? Terry Reid? Soft Machine?

P philiph20
philiph20 Dec 15, 2007 10:54:00
Replying to IanB

It's the music media's obsession with the likes of New Order and The Stone Roses which baffles me, surely they all cannot be into all that Madchester garbage..you just do not see bad reviews for these two acts it's very strange, a few months back Ian Brown's most recnet album was reviewed in The Sunday Times supplement said it was arguably the worst album ever made and Brown was a talentless twerp ( to which i agree) yet in the online version their was a different review it was kind of like The Stone Roses and it's members CANNOT be criticised so a revamped review was the order of the day.

P postyesterdayman
postyesterdayman Dec 15, 2007 15:15:40
Replying to IanB

I have to say, Big Star deserve their status imo...their first 2 records were great, especially 'Radio City', which was brilliant. And the Doors were already broken up when ol' Jimbo met the almighty in the tub, so obviously their best work was behind them!

K keith a
keith a Dec 15, 2007 17:18:38
Replying to IanB

IanB wrote:
[quote="philiph20"]

Not sure NO ever got beyond their influences.

Can't see that at all, Ian.

Regardless of whether you like NO or not, surely you can spot a NO record from miles away. They may have had their influences - but who hasn't? - but thy ended up with their own unmistakeable sound.