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FourWinds wrote:
fitzcoraldo wrote:
I was hoping to avoid getting down to specific cases and was trying to keep things tried to keep things on a general level but since you ask.
No chance of that :-)

To prove that they can be old, here's one incorporated into a wedge tomb - http://www.megalithomania.com/show/image/2545

Oh well it was a noble idea ( ;
I guess we need to define what a bullaun is or more importantly isn't.
There are many examples from both our islands and abroad of folk incorporting unusual stones into their monuments. Your newgrove example is undoubtably a bowl shaped depression but is it a bullaun? Does the term mean any bowel-like depression or does it have a more specific meaning?
for example, to me, this is just a river worn stone
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/56543/glendasan_river.html
If it classed as a bullaun then I can you give dozens and dozens of examples.

cheers
fitz

"a bowel like depression"
.....ooh er Mr Freud!!

Glendalough is an odd place. I think it's on record that that example was thrown in or washed down in a storm. Add the fact that Glendalough has over 25 genuine bullauns I think it's a pretty safe bet to classify that particular example. That bowl is also 40cm across, which is far bigger than any river-worn one I've seen elsewhere.

There is one up stream from that which is in an earthfast boulder in the river bed that is below the water line. I would definitely put a dodgy flag on the up stream one. However, as the course of the river has moved many times it's hard to be sure that it started out in the river.

There are many river bed basins in Ireland too that are most certainly nautural. Many of them have still been sacred over the years, though - usually an early saint's knee prints. Again, being linked to an early saint does hint at the bowls being sacred beforehand, even if they are 100% natural.

A lot are associated with water, but few of them are close to fast running water, so a river-rolled-based origin is not valid for most.

This one's almost certainly got water-worn-origins, but no way are all of them natural.

As with all these things it is up to each person to have their own opinion about such things. It's easier to have a strong one when you've seen over 100 of the little buggers, though :-) As with people, so it is with websites. It's up to TMA to have a policy based on the site's opinion of bullauns and at the moment any (well most) ideas are valid.

The definition of a bullaun stone is simple - a stone with one or more large manmade/enhanced basins, usually hemi-sperical, at least 10cm in diameter.

The 10cm bit is where I personally cut them off, but the rest is pretty standard. I've seen smaller ones classed as bullauns, which I class as large cupmarks. The classification really is loose, because no one has studied and catagorised them effectively. For example, there is a group in Carlow that are conical, but still classed as bullauns. Should they be? I'm not so sure myself, but others seem to be.

fitzcoraldo wrote:
for example, to me, this is just a river worn stone
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/56543/glendasan_river.html
If it classed as a bullaun then I can you give dozens and dozens of examples.

cheers
fitz

Actually Fitz, that's a particularly rotten shot of that stone. If you saw it in situ you'd see that the 'bullaun' was most definitely carved/worked. On the day we were there it looked to me very much like a baptismal font so it maybe proves your point, but in a different way than you intended. It's unique in that respect in comparison to the rest of the 25 or so bullauns at Glendalough except maybe this http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/53877/images/brockagh.html
or this http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/53866/images/deer_stone.html

On the broader front, a disputed antiquity label wouldn't bother me on bullauns, but you'd have to label them all that way given that there is no proof that any of them are ancient.