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4,000 year old case; The body in the bog

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moss M
moss Nov 29, 2013 07:58:11
Replying to Rhiannon

Rhiannon wrote:
Well it's always interesting to see bog bodies isn't it, I so loved seeing them in the museum in Dublin. So I can't complain that there was an hour about them. But they had to shoehorn in an Exciting Angle and it kind of spoilt the programme for me. By which I mean, I thought the amazing thing about this particular bog body was that it was the oldest one they'd ever found, I think I'm right in saying by some margin. But they rolled out Ned Kelly with the hat who was insistent that it had to fit into the ritual murder theory that went with the more recent bodies. He leapt on everything that even vaguely fitted, and it was nice to see the coroner (?) vigorously deny that the back deformity came from an attack, but rather from being squashed in a bog for a few millennia. I thought he was really grabbing at straws towards the end, claiming all sorts of stuff about what was on the gundstrop cauldron, even though we were being shown it ourselves, and it didn't obviously match what he was saying about people being sacrificed etc.

And another thing, the chap with the testate amoebas doing his research about climate. I mean that's fair enough. But to extrapolate the killings were to do with fertility of crops changing, I thought that was pushing it a bit too far. If it was a long term change, why would anyone at any one point think it was unusual and therefore requiring of sacrificing your king? Surely you'd save such extreme measures for some totally mental downturn in the weather. Not something that was happening over hundreds of years.

Anyway apart from this desperate need to have something Dramatic (and there was a lot of reenacted throat slashing as well with squirty blood, as if we can't imagine that ourselves) it was quite interesting and watchable I thought. But nothing particularly new? Which was a shame really as this body is actually different because of its age. I think I'd just like a programme more about the different types of evidence they can glean from the bodies. Like their stomach contents, and the things they're wearing, or their beautifully manicured fingernails. That'd do for me.

oh but to be that chap doing the experimental archaeology for a living, Dr Billy somethingorother. Now that's a job I'd like.

Brilliant analysis Rhiannon, but you know how I love my celtic (small c to save arguments) gods, gruesome deaths and gold torqs.. Agree entirely that it was DRAMATIC and repetitious on the killing scenes. It is funny how these programmes take one theme so that the 'barbaric' celts are forever lodged inside our heads. Also as you rightly point out not much evidence of the oldest bog body as they all poked and prodded his skinny frame, no stomach contents and no head, does this get chewed up into the peat?
Seeing the Gundestrup cauldron at the beginning of this year in the Celtic Exhibition at Stuttgart, was one of the highlights of my life;) the celtic gold that was on display was lavish and beautiful.
Highlights for me in the programme was the 'bog butter' though of course we go back to ritual offering, maybe good Irish housewives kept it in the bog for preservation to tide them over spring.
As for the testate amoebas, fascinating analysis of soil content, but structuring evidence to fit the theory - mmm

R Rhiannon
Rhiannon Nov 29, 2013 08:43:21
Replying to moss

You lucky thing seeing the cauldron! That must have been something indeed. I can see you walking round and round and round.

I'd forgotten the bog butter in my bleary morning state. You're right that was pretty cool. I'd definitely like to know more about examples of that. Mr I-wear-my-hat-indoors pointed out that people were still stashing butter in bogs into the 20th century. But this rather cast his Ritual Butter Deposition theory into question I thought. Because maybe modern people were sticking it there in lieu of a fridge, he didn't mention why they did it or whether they went to retrieve it. So maybe prehistoric people were sticking it there in lieu of a fridge too and then forgetting where they'd stashed it. Who knows. Or maybe the bog deities liked a bit of butter, I certainly do.

And another thing, about the barbarians - it was good to hear someone explain that the romans were writing down scurillous xenophobic stuff about their neighbours (hah criticising the unpleasing to the eye settlements, cheeky beggars, just because they weren't all square I suppose).

It's great that there's such a large body of early literature for Ireland. But it was written down so long after the iron age, hundreds and hundreds of years, so can we really be sure that the stories have any bearing on what people believed at that time. It's so tempting to want to believe it's so. There's that thrice-killed kings thing. But it could be just coincidence. Or a garbled version of what was really going on. I also wonder what prompted those monks to write down those stories and who they heard them from. (and the mabinogion, that's used very much by people wanting to talk about the celts. But that's even more removed in time. And parts of it are certainly very muddly).

anyway I must stop thinking about interesting things and turn my brain to dull friday work subjects regrettably. have a lovely day