Stonehenge 181
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tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
[quote="nigelswift"]"Okay Nigel, please enlighten us by revealing how many EXACTLY of the 1000's of dowsers out there have shown this 'lack of ability'"

Normally an exact number would be hard to come up with, but not in this case as I know of exactly none who have shown that ability to others (based on my personal observation and Googling. Under controlled conditions, that is.) I'm prepared to bet my caravan against your house that that's the EXACT number you know too!

Being committed and getting off your arse every weekend doesn't make throwing knucklebones an effective form of futurology or dowsing a real phenomenon.

"Beats sitting in your armchair or looking at a computer screen and googling away to gain your information from like many do!"

If that's a dig at me so be it but you should know I've been interested in dowsing for many, many years since before Bill Gates had a pot to piss in and I do know a bit about it! As does George. Why demonise us (which is what's coming across loud and clear)? Don't you think we'd RATHER it was proved to be a real phenomenon? You'd have to be bonkers not to wish it was.

No dig directly at you personally intended Nigel I can assure you but plenty at those who at times quote unrealistic claims in an attempt to try and prove a point.
Just sticking to my 1,000's of dowsers out there, lets, just for arguments sake, say there are 5,000. I doubt very much that more than 50 dowsers have been 'lab tested' to prove their apparent claims, or more likely, asked to prove something dreamt up by their examiners.
Would you seriously consider that the 'failings' of those 50 dowsers (1%) are truly representative of those other 4,950 who have not been tested? It would only take 1 out of those 4,950 to pass the tests asked of him to prove that dowsing does work, but not for everyone! That is your weakness, you make no allowance for the possibility that it may just work!
Well if it's not Nigel that leaves me .

What are the unrealistic claims from the sceptical viewpoint ,and what are the quotes ?

The unrealistic claims are from the dowsers .
Do you actaully believe that dowsers are capable of finding "stuff" and what makes you believe it ?
There is no reason to believe that it does work ,when given the opportunity under test conditions , they never do better than expected by chance.
Maybe spoon bending , psychokinesis , table turning ,communicating with the dead , levitation ,reading tea leaves etc works , but I wouldn't bet on it . Everyone , when tested by the non gullible fails .
Just get one dowser to find the hidden pot of ring pulls and we'll be on the road to believing .

The unrealistic claim is that dowsers can't do what they say they can when you are basing that on probably much less that 1% of them. You're one for your facts ,figures and statistics George, does that seem realistic to you?

I'm not claiming to believe anything, just being rather sceptical about the claims as there have been nowhere near enough test cases to prove your point.

Can you tell me how many there have been please without fudging?

What do mean without fudging ?

Just tell me straight how many dowsers have been tested under lab conditions compared to all the 1,000's out there without all the vid clips thrown in please. If you don't know then just say so.

How could I possibly how many dowsers have been tested under lab conditions . What kind of question is that ?
Who knows the answer to that ? Obviously nobody .


What bearing could that possibly have on the efficacy of dowsing .
How many crop circles have been shown to be done by non aliens ? As if the numbers matter , just find one that wasn't , that's what matters .
I see you didn't pay much attention to the real evidence .

Haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa so you don't know. After all the waffling about all the dowsers who have failed to deliver under test conditions to prove your case it could be just half a dozen out of the 1000's working out in the field that haven't been tested yet. Hardly convincing stuff is it. I'm outa here.

Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
[quote="nigelswift"]"Okay Nigel, please enlighten us by revealing how many EXACTLY of the 1000's of dowsers out there have shown this 'lack of ability'"

Normally an exact number would be hard to come up with, but not in this case as I know of exactly none who have shown that ability to others (based on my personal observation and Googling. Under controlled conditions, that is.) I'm prepared to bet my caravan against your house that that's the EXACT number you know too!

Being committed and getting off your arse every weekend doesn't make throwing knucklebones an effective form of futurology or dowsing a real phenomenon.

"Beats sitting in your armchair or looking at a computer screen and googling away to gain your information from like many do!"

If that's a dig at me so be it but you should know I've been interested in dowsing for many, many years since before Bill Gates had a pot to piss in and I do know a bit about it! As does George. Why demonise us (which is what's coming across loud and clear)? Don't you think we'd RATHER it was proved to be a real phenomenon? You'd have to be bonkers not to wish it was.

No dig directly at you personally intended Nigel I can assure you but plenty at those who at times quote unrealistic claims in an attempt to try and prove a point.
Just sticking to my 1,000's of dowsers out there, lets, just for arguments sake, say there are 5,000. I doubt very much that more than 50 dowsers have been 'lab tested' to prove their apparent claims, or more likely, asked to prove something dreamt up by their examiners.
Would you seriously consider that the 'failings' of those 50 dowsers (1%) are truly representative of those other 4,950 who have not been tested? It would only take 1 out of those 4,950 to pass the tests asked of him to prove that dowsing does work, but not for everyone! That is your weakness, you make no allowance for the possibility that it may just work!
Well if it's not Nigel that leaves me .

What are the unrealistic claims from the sceptical viewpoint ,and what are the quotes ?

The unrealistic claims are from the dowsers .
Do you actaully believe that dowsers are capable of finding "stuff" and what makes you believe it ?
There is no reason to believe that it does work ,when given the opportunity under test conditions , they never do better than expected by chance.
Maybe spoon bending , psychokinesis , table turning ,communicating with the dead , levitation ,reading tea leaves etc works , but I wouldn't bet on it . Everyone , when tested by the non gullible fails .
Just get one dowser to find the hidden pot of ring pulls and we'll be on the road to believing .

The unrealistic claim is that dowsers can't do what they say they can when you are basing that on probably much less that 1% of them. You're one for your facts ,figures and statistics George, does that seem realistic to you?

I'm not claiming to believe anything, just being rather sceptical about the claims as there have been nowhere near enough test cases to prove your point.

Can you tell me how many there have been please without fudging?

What do mean without fudging ?

Just tell me straight how many dowsers have been tested under lab conditions compared to all the 1,000's out there without all the vid clips thrown in please. If you don't know then just say so.

How could I possibly how many dowsers have been tested under lab conditions . What kind of question is that ?
Who knows the answer to that ? Obviously nobody .


What bearing could that possibly have on the efficacy of dowsing .
How many crop circles have been shown to be done by non aliens ? As if the numbers matter , just find one that wasn't , that's what matters .
I see you didn't pay much attention to the real evidence .

Haaaaaa haaaaaaaaaa so you don't know. After all the waffling about all the dowsers who have failed to deliver under test conditions to prove your case it could be just half a dozen out of the 1000's working out in the field that haven't been tested yet. Hardly convincing stuff is it. I'm outa here.
What kind of argument is that in favour of dowsing .
Of course I can't tell you the exact number of tests . And i never said I could . The number doesn't matter .There has been no waffling about about all the dowsers who failed the tetsts they are real and manifold , I presented some but of course you entirely ignored that . There are countless others and written examples , not half a dozen as you suggest ,this in itself shows the level of ignorance of the subject .

You have failed to provide anything to support the efficacy of dowsing . Dowsers at least might know how to discuss the subject rather than resort to bizarre "tell me exactly how many crop circles have been shown to be man made and if you can't it shows that they could be real " type comment . Do you really believe that is an argument ?
Yes "outta here ", when the going gets tough that has been a common response .

I'm outa here

Come on Roy, why not add "Speak to the hand, Sisterrrr!

No need to stop, no-one is saying anything unreasonable.

And there's no reason to say HA-haaaaaa as if not knowing how many dowsers have been properly tested indicates anything in particular.

I can tell you two things that ARE relevant:

First, if you Google the subject you'll find absolutely oodles of dowsers have been tested, some properly, some not and none have passed a proper one (while some have passed a dodgy one). (George and I have long known that, you may not have). What does that mass of public data stretching back donkeys years tell us? Simply that none has passed a proper test, (not that I've ever found). So that's 0 out of thousands. The fact that there may be millions doesn't change that rather arresting statistic. Maybe the real ones are out there, like you say, but it is looking a tad unlikely given the evidence.

There's a second bit of circumstantial evidence to be considered. Most dowsers are very shy of tests. That's a rather puzzling human trait unless they are aware they might not pass. Skilled jugglers are never shy to demonstrate.