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baza wrote:
tiompan wrote:
I don't have a problem with the site of the pit , it's just not what they say it is astronomically .Having said that there were some odd comments like the pit being on the pathway of the Cursus then it turns out to be 150 metres to the south of the southern ditch of the Cursus .
I find it unbelievable that the professors, doctors and lecturers in archaeology involved with this project could have made such a simple mistake.

Professor Vince Gaffney, when talking about the pits, said that they investigated the cursus and found "two very large pits, one in the east end and one in the west end of the cursus." He reiterates "these pits were inside the cursus." Furthermore, if you stand at the Heelstone on Midsummers Day, then the sun rises over the eastern pit and sets over the western pit.

I am wondering, have you taken your information from the aerial view accompanying your news link? The "New Discovery" on that image must be the "new mini-henge" which this team claimed to have discovered some time ago.

Here's Vince Gaffney's podcast:

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Audio/news/Vince-Gaffney-podflash.mp3

Very coincidentally, I spent a happy few hours last night chatting away over a few pints with Professor Gaffney. He sketched his theories out for me (i'll scan them if you like) and showed be the Hi-tech scans on his smart phone. It has nothing to do with aerial photography.

He hates the media attention, as most academics do. The "lets get media headlines" is a red herring. However, he was accused of publishing too early. This is a common occuranance at the moment as academics try to get papers published ahead of the REF and published before others discover.

I'm not saying I understood everything he said, but his theory is convincing. (And, as he said, everyone has a right to an opinion and to disagree). Vince Gaffney has nearly 30 years of working in and around Stonhenge. Maybe he has become too close perhaps. Thanks for the opinions here, but I'll stick to science and the professionals.

wychburyman wrote:
baza wrote:
tiompan wrote:
I don't have a problem with the site of the pit , it's just not what they say it is astronomically .Having said that there were some odd comments like the pit being on the pathway of the Cursus then it turns out to be 150 metres to the south of the southern ditch of the Cursus .
I find it unbelievable that the professors, doctors and lecturers in archaeology involved with this project could have made such a simple mistake.

Professor Vince Gaffney, when talking about the pits, said that they investigated the cursus and found "two very large pits, one in the east end and one in the west end of the cursus." He reiterates "these pits were inside the cursus." Furthermore, if you stand at the Heelstone on Midsummers Day, then the sun rises over the eastern pit and sets over the western pit.

I am wondering, have you taken your information from the aerial view accompanying your news link? The "New Discovery" on that image must be the "new mini-henge" which this team claimed to have discovered some time ago.

Here's Vince Gaffney's podcast:

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Audio/news/Vince-Gaffney-podflash.mp3

Very coincidentally, I spent a happy few hours last night chatting away over a few pints with Professor Gaffney. He sketched his theories out for me (i'll scan them if you like) and showed be the Hi-tech scans on his smart phone. It has nothing to do with aerial photography.

He hates the media attention, as most academics do. The "lets get media headlines" is a red herring. However, he was accused of publishing too early. This is a common occuranance at the moment as academics try to get papers published ahead of the REF and published before others discover.

I'm not saying I understood everything he said, but his theory is convincing. (And, as he said, everyone has a right to an opinion and to disagree). Vince Gaffney has nearly 30 years of working in and around Stonhenge. Maybe he has become too close perhaps. Thanks for the opinions here, but I'll stick to science and the professionals.

What was being proffered was science , i.e. hard falsifiable data , not speculation , but you havn't bothered to even enquire or consider it and simply maintained a cultural rather than scientific attitude .

I wonder why you chose to link to the story at the bbc when you could have explained the theories direct from the horse's mouth?

There's a difference between the data and the interpretation of the data. If he's a good scientist his data isn't arguable about because that's just numbers collected in a rigorous way (but only in a sense, because you've still chosen which data to collect). But it's the way the data is analysed that's the thing. Even if the numbers coincide with some other numbers doesn't mean the two things are connected. You need a bit of statistics and that to suggest your hypothesis might indeed be right. But it's picking the appropriate statistics isn't it, otherwise you can make your data suggest things that it doesn't really suggest. That's where you can twist / cherrypick your data to support a pet theory.

It's not explained in a media-friendly story (because it's too dull probably) but without that full explanation of the analysis then the believability of the research can't be challenged. And the whole point of science is that it is presented so anyone is at liberty to examine the data and the conclusions, very democratic. So when you say 'you'd rather stick with the scientists and professionals', that was a funny way to put it really, when you don't know whether Tiompan is perfectly capable of examining that data, and you yourself are deferring to the man whose research it was in the first place. (and who admittedly may be right. but that's not the point).