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Britain's Ancient Capital: Secrets Of Orkney

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tiompan T
tiompan Jan 29, 2017 13:11:57
Replying to Annexus Quam

Annexus Quam wrote:
Celebrate Neolithic Orkney – but leave out Stonehenge.
Thanks for that great article - Orcadian prehistory is insular and far more interesting than that. Not at all suggesting I am against large-scale cultural and human contacts in prehistory but, at least we are evolving :-) in the past century, 'connections with Greece or Egypt were mandatory', now it is getting hard to escape the psychological pull of Wiltshire. I thought the same (not again!) about it once the programme started. Bit it's peak time TV, Neil Oliver, etc. Mind you, archaeology everywhere needs this hype in order to survive and I bet letting everyone (that includes petty councillors and their neighbours) believe whatever feeds their imagination will pay for the next dig. 'Reality' gets boring, even more so in this day and age of short attention spans and tweets.

It struck me the author mentioned very old RC dates for their earthwork enclosures. Maybe I misunderstood but is there an intention there to suggest anything other than 'dates so far are the oldest found in UK enclosures'?? He then adds 'enclosures are common but not everywhere in Britain'. I am interested in the RC dating, as enclosures are such a common (but little researched) Euro-phenomenon, and very ancient too.

Long time no see AQ .

Whittle and Bayliss's "Gathering Time " is the go to book for causewayed enclosure dating ,although almost entirely related to UK .
Arbon Bleiche 3 settlement in Northern Switzerland predates any UK enclosure by 3-400 years .
Other LBK enclosures (6th millenium BC ) , and Rondels (5 th millenium BC predate them too .
Hambledon Hill : The main enclosure built 3675-3630 bc (95%)
Whitesheet hill: built 3790 -3520 (95%).

Have to mention the ring ditch at Shepperton ,as it it is at the end of the lane where J.G.Ballard lived for many years . built 3885-3380 (95%)

E Evergreen Dazed
Evergreen Dazed Jan 29, 2017 14:07:45
Replying to tiompan

tiompan wrote:
Annexus Quam wrote:
Celebrate Neolithic Orkney – but leave out Stonehenge.
Thanks for that great article - Orcadian prehistory is insular and far more interesting than that. Not at all suggesting I am against large-scale cultural and human contacts in prehistory but, at least we are evolving :-) in the past century, 'connections with Greece or Egypt were mandatory', now it is getting hard to escape the psychological pull of Wiltshire. I thought the same (not again!) about it once the programme started. Bit it's peak time TV, Neil Oliver, etc. Mind you, archaeology everywhere needs this hype in order to survive and I bet letting everyone (that includes petty councillors and their neighbours) believe whatever feeds their imagination will pay for the next dig. 'Reality' gets boring, even more so in this day and age of short attention spans and tweets.

It struck me the author mentioned very old RC dates for their earthwork enclosures. Maybe I misunderstood but is there an intention there to suggest anything other than 'dates so far are the oldest found in UK enclosures'?? He then adds 'enclosures are common but not everywhere in Britain'. I am interested in the RC dating, as enclosures are such a common (but little researched) Euro-phenomenon, and very ancient too.

Long time no see AQ .

Whittle and Bayliss's "Gathering Time " is the go to book for causewayed enclosure dating ,although almost entirely related to UK .
Arbon Bleiche 3 settlement in Northern Switzerland predates any UK enclosure by 3-400 years .
Other LBK enclosures (6th millenium BC ) , and Rondels (5 th millenium BC predate them too .
Hambledon Hill : The main enclosure built 3675-3630 bc (95%)
Whitesheet hill: built 3790 -3520 (95%).

Have to mention the ring ditch at Shepperton ,as it it is at the end of the lane where J.G.Ballard lived for many years . built 3885-3380 (95%)

The relatively recent discovery at Thame looks v interesting.
I don't think dates have been published yet.

http://www.berksarch.co.uk/index.php/a-causewayed-enclosure-and-later-discoveries-at-thame-oxfordshire/

A Annexus Quam
Annexus Quam Jan 29, 2017 14:37:19
Replying to tiompan

It is always a quick periodical glimpse of something which accidentally catches my eye that forces me to go through the painstaking process of having to recover forgotten passwords when I want to log in, but I will be put off again, as it is required in every other device. The way he mentioned very old RC dates in Orcadian enclosures is what prompted me. Got to delve deeper into that. No-one expected the big complex there a decade ago, either. The way the bones under the slabs are seen (practical supports or ritual offerings) is also the eternal debate. Fascinating!

Thanks for the dates. The Hambledon dates are quite typical for the UK. It will be interesting to see developments up there and double-check his assertions. Yes, rondels and LBK centres like Gosseck is what sparked an interest from me years ago while in Germany. All those beautiful well-preserved enclosures from the 5th millennium in Poland, Bohemia, Bavaria, Switzerland... are always gagging to be visited. I often wonder if the lack of translations are often an impediment to the development of trans-national archaeological studies, though things are moving with university grants, visits, etc, luckily. Those long German names and the fact that archaeological studies are often unique in their country and obscure will perpetuate the notion that 'henge' is not a continental, most possibly imported notion.

Like the vole ;-)

For a quick casual view of Old European enclosures:

Http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com.es/2014/03/henges-rondel-enclosures.html

[Stonehenge IS there again, of course, to calm the British psychological mindset ;-) ]