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GLADMAN wrote:
My recent visit to Saith Maen confirmed that the giant shake hole a few yards to the north of the site must surely have been part of the original 'vision'. Surely? Just wondering what people have to say about:

1) what criteria need to be met to class an obviously natural feature as a genuine TMA prehistoric ritualistic site? E.g Sacred Hill, rock feature etc.
2) what other examples are there out there, aside from Capel Garmon and Bryn Celli Ddu?

Gladman, hope you don't mind me referring back to this topic. I found myself thinking of you last evening as I went to a talk titled The Invention of Prehistoric Sacred Places by Bob Trubshaw.

A full house and a very good speaker. Bob Trubshaw talked a bit about how the concept of 'nature', 'countryside' and 'landscape' are relatively modern and we have an idealised view of nature. Quite hard to sum up in a few words so I bought his book which he was selling at a greatly reduced price "Sacred Places - Prehistory and Popular Imagination" (ISBN 1 872883 67 2)

In his talk the speaker looked at some of the places we consider sacred - mountain tops, caves, groves, sources of water and came to the possibility that sacred can sometimes equate with terrifying. He also mentioned altitude sickness which causes some mountaineers to experience visions. The book looks like a good read.

tjj wrote:
In his talk the speaker looked at some of the places we consider sacred - mountain tops, caves, groves, sources of water and came to the possibility that sacred can sometimes equate with terrifying. He also mentioned altitude sickness which causes some mountaineers to experience visions. The book looks like a good read.
Future pagans leaving clouties at the The "Sarrie Heid " and Spaghetti Junction ?
Altitude sickness in the UK ? You'd have to stick the two biggest hills on top of each other , maybe hypothermia , mmmm you can get that at the Sarrie Heid and Spaghetti Junction too .

[quote="tjj"][quote="GLADMAN"]In his talk the speaker looked at some of the places we consider sacred - mountain tops, caves, groves, sources of water and came to the possibility that sacred can sometimes equate with terrifying. quote]

Exactly. It's a sacred thing.

:-)

Om Shanti

I reckon the primary factor why we regard extreme natural features - mountain tops etc - as 'special' is that we no longer, in general, live in close proximity on a day to day basis. Industrialisation, of course, brought most of us into an urban environment, the Victorians thus regarding a visit to such landscapes as an escape from the squalor we created. Needless to say the people 'left behind' didn't see it that way. I've talked to farmers who can't see how anyone could regard Cadair Idris as beautiful... having seen it every day of their life, a vision they equate only to hard work.

In many respects the relatively low altitude of UK mountains is irrelevant - just means they are older - and people die upon them regardless, in all seasons - for example an SAS man last time I took my niece up the Brecon Beacons. Our weather, in general, is much more changeable and unpredicatble than other countries. I hold our high places in awe, and see no reason why our ancestors shouldn't have done so, too. How would they have explained peels of thunder echoing around a cwm, something which scares the living daylights out of me who supposedly knows the cause? In short extreme places cause extreme emotions.