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If I sound rude it's because I found it frustrating that I'd looked up things to back up my point, and you haven't got the time to read them.

"we don't have a single specific example of any archaeology that *might* be destroyed? No reason to believe that current techniques aren't sufficient to preserve important archaeology?
It's the precautionary principle. It's that we actually can't and don't know what those things might be. It's like if you spoke to a victorian antiquarian and asked them to not dig up the barrows because they were spoiling the stratigraphy and the carbon dating evidence and the chance of running some geophys over it. He couldn't imagine what you were talking about because to his eyes, he'd found a bit of charred bone and measured a skull's proportions and ooh there's a gold torc, what more would anyone want.

"So the argument would seem to be that we shouldn't undertake restoration *just in case*? On that basis, we would *never* restore or dig, because no generation can *ever* be certain that they've reached the peak of technology.
No, that's not what's being said. It's that the 'resource' (ie all the archaeological information under the ground) is finite at Avebury. So yes you can dig (as they did at one part of the purported Beckhampton avenue) but you can only dig a bit at a time. You learn something this time. But you leave a bit left so people can learn stuff in the future. So yes, you can dig, you can 'restore' (provided you know what was originally there to restore it, I suppose) - but you don't take a unique and nationally (internationally?) important site like Avebury and dig it all up, restore it all up, at once.

"At some point, we have to accept that every site of human activity can't be hermetically preserved for eternity, and nor is that desirable."
No of course not, you're totally right. But Avebury certainly isn't being hermetically preserved, it's a massive tourist attraction with car parks and restaurants and a road and everything. Why not change it one thing at a time, a tweak here and there, a bit of information gleaned here and there, building on previous knowledge, moving forward slowly but surely. Not treating the place like some kind of prehistoric recreation attraction.

And, I know it's a slippery slope sort of point, but if you want the stones re-erected, do you want the ditch dug out as well, where does one stop? Reinstate the size of the banks? The entrances? (Remove all the houses... the road)

Rhiannon wrote:
If I sound rude it's because I found it frustrating that I'd looked up things to back up my point, and you haven't got the time to read them.
It's not my fault though. I didn't *choose* to have a limited number of hours in the day ;)

Just a practical note... I assume you're reaching the TMA forum via HTH? Multi-quotes don't work if you're reading it via TMA. Take a peak. Your post is a mess (that's not a criticism and it's not your fault. I personally find it a pain in the arse that we can't multi-quote on here).

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It's the precautionary principle. It's that we actually can't and don't know what those things might be.
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But that will *always* be the case. Does that mean that we leave everything forever buried and never dig another hole in the earth? We can *never* be 100% certain that we're not destroying something, so it becomes a risk vs. reward equation, which is why we end up with equally passionate people taking differing views on this subject - because there's no objective right or wrong answer, just how you personally weigh up the risk vs. reward.

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No, that's not what's being said. It's that the 'resource' (ie all the archaeological information under the ground) is finite at Avebury. So yes you can dig (as they did at one part of the purported Beckhampton avenue) but you can only dig a bit at a time. You learn something this time. But you leave a bit left so people can learn stuff in the future. So yes, you can dig, you can 'restore' (provided you know what was originally there to restore it, I suppose) - but you don't take a unique and nationally (internationally?) important site like Avebury and dig it all up, restore it all up, at once.
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Well if you're talking about restoring the stones carefully over time, I'm on board with that - with the caveat that the restoration doesn't necessarily risk anything connected with the WHS status, since - as far as I understand it - any damage would be to medieval archaeology. Personally - and I know this is subjective - I feel that the reward of re-erecting stones far outweighs the risk of destroying medieval archaeology.


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No of course not, you're totally right. But Avebury certainly isn't being hermetically preserved, it's a massive tourist attraction with car parks and restaurants and a road and everything. Why not change it one thing at a time, a tweak here and there, a bit of information gleaned here and there, building on previous knowledge, moving forward slowly but surely. Not treating the place like some kind of prehistoric recreation attraction.
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I'm on board with that. I'd be quite happy to see a plan in place for the restoration of the buried stones. I don't feel any need to see a rush towards restoring them all in one go.


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And, I know it's a slippery slope sort of point, but if you want the stones re-erected, do you want the ditch dug out as well, where does one stop? Reinstate the size of the banks? The entrances? (Remove all the houses... the road)
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It's the risk vs. reward thing again. The stones can be re-erected for comparatively little risk and effort. If the ditch could be re-dug with similarly little risk, then I'd be all for it. But it can't, so that's an easy line to draw. I'm not sure I'd have an issue with pulling the houses down though, so long as they leave the pub ;)

Rhiannon wrote:
It's the precautionary principle. It's that we actually can't and don't know what those things might be. It's like if you spoke to a victorian antiquarian and asked them to not dig up the barrows because they were spoiling the stratigraphy and the carbon dating evidence and the chance of running some geophys over it. He couldn't imagine what you were talking about because to his eyes, he'd found a bit of charred bone and measured a skull's proportions and ooh there's a gold torc, what more would anyone want...........
It's that the 'resource' (ie all the archaeological information under the ground) is finite at Avebury. So yes you can dig (as they did at one part of the purported Beckhampton avenue) but you can only dig a bit at a time. You learn something this time. But you leave a bit left so people can learn stuff in the future. So yes, you can dig, you can 'restore' (provided you know what was originally there to restore it, I suppose) - but you don't take a unique and nationally (internationally?) important site like Avebury and dig it all up, restore it all up, at once.
Have you been reading my mind again? I'd only add 2 small points -

1. it is because of all you've expressed that I tried to say something early on in this discussion to the effect that anything that's done at Avebury has to be a compromise between what we naturally would like to see done in our time and what is left for the future to do better in it's time. A compromise being the only way such irreconcilable interests, those of us and those of posterity, can be eve be resolved.
2. it is why, for the same reason, EH's guff talks of sampling around 2.5% when investigating a site - or it might have been 5%, it's donkeys years since I read it. Anyway, the thinking is well established worldwide, eat only a bit of the pie else there'll be no unchewed pie left for the great grandchildren. And it's important to keep in mind "we" are the minority compared with the future so we ought to take a very modest slice in all fairness.