Rotherwas Ribbon forum 4 room
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More info here
http://anthropology.net/2007/07/04/rotherwas-ribbon-a-bronze-age-site-unique-in-europe/

and a video here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6270000/newsid_6270000/6270012.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm

Viewing by appointment this Saturday, before its encased and then built over.
"If discovered earlier" the road could have been diverted, but now....
(Shades of Tara).

nigelswift wrote:
Viewing by appointment this Saturday
Who do I ring for an appointment?
We were planning on having a cotswolds barrow day on Saturday, hereford isn't _that_ much further :-)

"one of the most important archaeological finds since Stonehenge. " but they can encase it and stick a road over it. Great.
I wish I could see the video. I #d like to know how they know it's a snake and not something else wavy and long.

Press release: Why bury Herefordshire's Stonehenge under concrete?
Rotherwas Ribbon must be protected and road building stopped
www.rotherwasribbon.com

A Herefordshire Councillor is leading a surge of anger against Herefordshire Council from local to global levels for the secretive way in which it has made a decision to concrete over the now famous 'Rotherwas Ribbon' – something the council's own archaeologist has described as having international significance. (1)

Green Councillor Gerald Dawe, whose ward includes the now world-famous 'Rotherwas Ribbon', has described the proposal to concrete over this hugely significant find as “cultural vandalism of the highest order.”

“The first I knew about this decision was on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, yet I am the ward councillor. Decision-making is again going on behind closed doors. A clique in the Council appear to have known about this find for a long time. Why are they excluding the Herefordshire public yet again?”

“It is appalling that democratically elected councillors and the general public have been kept in the dark. Allowing only 200 people to view it for a few minutes this weekend is completely inadequate. We need council leaders to involve the whole council and local people in coming up with a more imaginative solution than burying Hereford's Stonehenge under concrete."

Cllr. Dawe has asked Council officials if English Heritage knew and if so when? He has also asked: "How long has the importance of the site been known, which councillors knew about it and when, and who has made the decision to concrete over the find and keep this decision secret from both the public and their elected representatives?" Cllr. Dawe is still waiting for a reply.

“With such a significant find we must immediately pause the building of this road to allow further research and a national discussion about what can be done. The road will cost £12.5 million yet as a county we earn £170 million from tourism. The Stonehenge and Salisbury Tourism partnership say this could bring revenue to Hereford and they are right.(2) So why on earth would we pour concrete over it?”

“This expensive road is for a small number of lorries to an industrial site when access could have been improved in cheaper and less damaging ways. The Council have gone against the government, the planning inspector and their own consultants to build a road which is completely unnecessary when other local industrial sites remain half empty.”(3)(4)

Campaigners are calling for road building to be paused allowing for full – and national - democratic debate on the best way of using the discovery for the whole country, and to the benefit of Herefordshire's economy. Cllr. Dawe said: “The economic benefit of the road needs urgently to be measured against the positive economic benefit of increased tourism.”

It is understood that 12 eminent archaeologists from English Heritage are visiting next week and that the Regional Director of English Heritage believes the Ribbon to be of great importance.(5)

Nigel Swift, Chair of the UK-wide group Heritage Action, said: “We are appalled. Our immediate reaction is that this isn't a matter for local politics but should be out in the open. The Ribbon would appear to be a prime candidate to be scheduled by English Heritage. Until there is a clear understanding about this the road must be halted.” (6)

Cllr. Dawe added “The Council's Good Environmental Management (GEM) strategy states '...sustainable development challenges especially pertinent to Herefordshire include protecting and enhancing it's outstanding landscape including sites and species of national, regional and local importance and minimising loss of biodiversity.' (7) This find is not only local, and regional, it is nationally and internationally significant. I urge our Council to follow their own policies and start conserving instead of destroying.' (8)

Supporters are urged to visit www.rotherwasribbon.com to register their support, find out more, and take further actions.

Rob Hattersley
Herefordshire Green Party Press Officer
07969 692534
[email protected]

From:
http://www.smr.herefordshire.gov.uk/news_events2/RotherwasNews2.htm

As soon as its significance was fully realised, it was decided to preserve the 'Ribbon' below the road.

The extra cost of this operation will be borne within the project costs, but will be offset by a reduced need for further archaeological investigation.

Application of slumpy like logic here methinks.

Took me a while, but I found a map of the route of the road.

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Forwardplanning/2__Proposed_Modifications_maps.pdf

Map PM10. Compare to google earth / local.live.com ... now I'm trying to work out where the ribbon is...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6285224.stm

Come on, schedule it!

.....and leave your own comment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/image_galleries/rotherwas_ribbon_gallery.shtml?1

There has been (at least) 2 TV reports on BBC Midlands Today, the last was monday or tuesday, that being the 9th or 10th. There was 2 councillors one against the road as a result of the discovery in tow with a retired council archaeologist who were clearly seeking a moratorium, and the other who stated that the proposed road will 100% go through, and words to state that exposure to the elements will result in erosion. If there has been a timetable to decide on viewing all the issues then this statement by the councillor in being premature may be highly contentious, and call his ability to hold office into question. Can this be an appropiate use of the Freedom of Information act in order to put severe pressure on English Heritage and Hereford Auth to expose any possible Gimcrackery. I think there is great scope to cause maximun embarrassment, and get laid into the local Bulls Lions and freemasons.

Exposure to the elements? Yea! that means that the ancients took all precautions to lay a blinding of sand, topsoil and turf to save it for future generation.

What a loade of Piddle and piffle

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6895710.stm

Now that is hardcore!

There was someone on the train this morning with a newspaper report about folk protesting and being arrested at the council offices.

I kept trying to read it but was getting funny looks (that happens a lot!), so I have no idea what it said.

VBB

The Downing Street petition now has over 500 signatures.

Please spread the word!

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/rotherwas/

Lucky enough to be visiting the serpent on Tuesday afternoon. Thought I migh mosy around other monuments in the area first, but don't know the area at all. Any suggestions?

Council officer sends letter to Rotherwas businesses rubbishing potential for tourism before evidence is gathered.....

Fri, Jul 13 2007 02:24 | Permalink
Michael Hainge, Director of Environment at Herefordshire Council, has taken the unusual step of writing to all Rotherwas businesses expressing the opinion that the importance of the historic Dinedor Serpent has been overplayed. Mr. Hainge appears to rubbish the idea of it being used for tourism, despite the importance originally placed on the find by the County Archaeologist Dr. Keith Ray.

"Comparison of the Rotherwas Ribbon with Stonehenge was meant in very narrow terms and is, in hindsight, somewhat unfortunate. The Ribbon has not even a fraction of the intrinsic interest enjoyed by Stonehenge nor the visual impact", said Mr. Hainge.

"Claims made by people outside of the Council ... that this could be exploited for tourism is, at the very least, extremely optimistic and at worst simply wrong."

Former Liberal Democrat Mayor of Hereford, Cllr. Marcelle Lloyd-Hayes, said: "This begs several questions. Firstly, surely an impartial officer, and one without archeological expertise, should not be expressing opinions in this way and at taxpayers expense? Secondly, why do local businesses need to know his opinions at this stage? Thirdly, what right does a council officer have to rubbish the tourism potential before it is properly assessed and full council has debated it?"

"There has been no independent assessment at this stage but council officers are already jumping to conclusions. We are calling for the Council to pause, take stock, and investigate the potential for tourism properly before committing to concrete the find, a step which cannot be reversed."

"Anyone who has seen the Ohio Serpent knows that there is potential for the Dinedor Serpent, but this needs investigation. Sites all around Salisbury mark out the shapes of ancient monuments even if they are underground, and imaginative reconstructions are fantastic ways of enthusing our young people about the past", said Cllr. Lloyd-Hayes.

She concluded: "I am concerned that English Heritage are not put under undue pressure to simply back the council. We need a genuinely independent assessment."

Local residents staged a protest yesterday demanding that the council cabinet guarantee full consultation with the public and a debate between all councillors before the Serpent disappears beneath the road. When this guarantee was not forthcoming, several protesters staged a sit in. Eight were then arrested and it is now understood that three have been charged with aggravated trespass, including two elderly countryside campaigners. The case will be held later this month.

http://www.rotherwasribbon.com/

If anyone is visiting over the week end and happen to have a gps with them could they please send in the grid ref .

The official response to the sad Rotherwas Affair by Hereford Archaeology published on 10th July 2007 starts off making all the right noises with liberal use of words such as important, unique and further exploration. No doubt these are the thoughts of County Archaeologist, Dr Keith Ray MBE.

About half way though it appears to have been hijacked by the spin doctors at the Herefordshire Council press office with talk of erosion (fix this please) and difficult decisions during a major and economically important infrastructure project.

One little gem:

A Herefordshire Council expert wrote:
(Building a bridge) ... could have very detrimental 'side effects' - as anyone who has ever built a bridge - or seen one being built - will understand.
I had cause to ponder this revelation on my walk this morning down to the village to get the Sunday papers (Telegraph) (and Mail this week) as I had to traverse two of these problematic structures. On considered reflection I conclude that in fact bridges are quite useful with only minor 'side effects'. After all I was certainly not going to wade thigh deep through two streams - not even for the new Prince CD!

The first video on Rotherwas is now up on YouTube, admittedly a re-hash of the original BBC 'new Stonehenge' report.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff88eXVQJaM

Dr Keith Ray, Herefordshire County Archaeologist, features heavily looking at times decidedly uncomfortable. The main message seems to be "well, er, basically... sorry".

C'mon Dr Keith, do the right thing. Please ask Herefordshire Council to suspend the road until you have finished your thorough investigations. Step up and be the man who gave the Rotherwas Ribbon to the world rather than the bloke who buried it!

There's going to be a public meeting later this month....


http://www.24dash.com/news/2/24563/index.htm

Rooting around the web I came across Planning Policy Guidance 16: Archaeology and planning, the document that should be informing the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, English Heritage and Herefordshire Council when coming to their challenging decision over the Rotherwas Ribbon.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1144057

It is certainly an interesting read when you apply it directly against the real-world case of the Ribbon.

In para 27:

As stated in paragraph 8, where nationally important archaeological remains, whether scheduled or not, and their settings, are affected by proposed development there should be a presumption in favour of their physical preservation in situ ie, a presumption against proposals which would involve significant alteration or cause damage, or which would have a significant impact on the setting of visible remains.

I do hope this clear-cut guidance for a presumption in favour is taken into account by the decision makers.

Also para 31 (Discovery of Archaeological Remains during Development):

Developers may wish to consider insuring themselves against the risk of a substantial loss while safeguarding the interest of historic remains unexpectedly discovered on the site.

Well that's Herefordshire Council (and McAlpine) sorted financially regarding any change of plan to the road. They are insured I hope?

This whole conundrum, of developers uncovering sites then allowing archeaos in to have a look then the site gets covered /trashed as opposed to nothing said and the sites gets lost or in exceptional cases the work is cancelled , is based on a fine line of trust between the parties . This case may tip the balance , regardless it can only get more interesting . The new government home building initiative will produce lots of similar cases .

http://www.heritageaction.org/?page=theheritagejournal

The journal has just been updated on this one........

and now they've left it uncovered in all the rain...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/6912238.stm

"An 81-year-old man and his 72-year-old wife appeared in court today after being arrested during a protest to save a Bronze Age footpath."
http://www.24dash.com/localgovernment/25004.htm

May they rot in hell for their extreme wickedness.

Note it is now a mere "footpath". Purely an accidental term, you understand.

Looks well knackered.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/image_galleries/rotherwas_ribbon_flooded_gallery.shtml

A rather good article by the Western Daily Press


http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=146238&command=displayContent&sourceNode=146064&contentPK=17928073&folderPk=100268&pNodeId=145795#continueNews

Here is the estimated position of the serpent shown on Google Earth with the proposed road plans overlayed:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1399/926370175_52a13f8642_o.jpg

Did anyone attend the local meeting last night?

An update on the council meeting last Friday which seems to have some good news in its content......

It was confirmed that "no irreversible action will be taken for several weeks". and that the exposed part of the Serpent will be be covered with sand and geoflex membrane.
Small snippets below, but the full report on the meeting can be read here;

http://www.wyed.co.uk/ribbon/index.php

1.. "The Council resolves to ensure that no irreversible action be taken that would prejudice the preservation or the potential for access, if appropriate, to what as currently advised is a site of archaeological importance.

2.. That Council notes that work on the construction of the Rotherwas Relief Road in that area is currently suspended (NB some works are being undertaken to protect the site) and that Cabinet be asked to address the issue of the appropriate approach to completion of the Rotherwas Relief Road in the context of the advice to be received from English Heritage as to the best method of preserving the archaeological remains"....

http://www.24dash.com/localgovernment/25365.htm

“From the start the council has been open and transparent about the Rotherwas Ribbon find "

That's just not true.

"Although recent floods and bad weather caused erosion to surrounding areas, the passage of water across the Ribbon itself was safely channelled through existing land drains over the cracked stone pathway."

I've been. That's a bare faced lie.

What can you do? Nothing.

Is there anybody with an artistic head, who can give us an approximation of what the ribbon could look like? I can't get a picture of it from the photo's I've seen.

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/herefordnewslatest/display.var.1590169.0.let_me_help_save_ribbon_says_farmer.php

"The work to cover the ribbon begins soon....."

Herefordshire Council is implementing its plans to preserve the Rotherwas Ribbon archaeological find and protect it for future generations.

A full council meeting confirmed that work on the Rotherwas Relief Road had been stopped around the site since the discovery in April of the Bronze Age ribbon of fire-cracked stones.

The council also determined that no irreversible action be taken that could prejudice its preservation for future generations.

http://www.24dash.com/localgovernment/25365.htm

Peace

Pilgrim

X

Green Party Principal Speaker Dr. Derek Wall said:

"The Rotherwas Ribbon is of great historical importance. It is vital that discoveries like these are protected from more road building.

"English Heritage inspectors have said that the best thing is for the remains to be preserved in-situ. They are currently considering whether the site meets the criteria for 'scheduling' - this status is given to monuments whose preservation is given priority over other land uses.

"Though this wouldn't preclude the relief road being built, it would send a message to Hereford council of the importance of these ancient remains.

"A petition calling for a full public inquiry to decide the future of the Rotherwas Ribbon can be signed on the Downing St website. I urge people who care about our archaeological heritage to add their names."

More here:

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/3112

http://www.herefordtimes.com/mostpopular.var.1653857.mostviewed.heritage_will_not_halt_new_road.php

If anyone can explain how the decision is consistent with the criteria for scheduling or protecting as laid out as their duty in the Act then a small prize is available...

I suppose there's as much chance of THEM explaining it as there is for them explaining the statutory justification for their support for the Stonehenge scheme and the Silbury capsule.

The latest news is out after the meeting on the 6th;

"Cabinet vote to bury Hereford's heritage"

http://www.rotherwasribbon.com/

there's a few words on HA Journal as well.

http://www.heritageaction.org/?page=theheritagejournal...

Just thought I would resurrect this topic. How is the road coming along?

I hear that a flint knife was found looking at the BBC red button regional news