I'm still here, but think I should shut up with the topics "outwith parameters" taking people onto boggy ground...lol. I started the ogam one too, and almost every topic I take an interest in my folklore slant seems to take it away from where it should be and someone mentions that. I'll just have to wait till I'm as smart on neolithic eras as youse guys to post. 10,000 posts by Fourwinds is quite awe inspiring level of knowledge, and makes me think it might take years before I have much to say....
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Graves hasn't translated the earliest texts of those poems, or has been imaginative in adding his own bits, something he did a lot. Look at these, better translations, of earliest versions:
The Song of Amergin from the Book of Leinster
Earliest manuscript:
Lebar na Núachongbála (The Book of Leinster)
p. 49 in the diplomatic edition; from the CELT site
1. Am gáeth i mmuir. ar domni.
2. Am tond trethan i tír. 1550] {MS folio 12b 40}
3. Am fúaim mara.
4. Am dam secht ndírend.
5. Am séig i n-aill.
6. Am dér gréne.g
7. Am caín. 1555]
8. Am torc ar gail.
9. Am hé i llind.
10. Am loch i mmaig
11. Am briandai.
12. Am bri danae. 1560]
13. Am gai i fodb. feras feochtu.
14. Am dé delbas do chind codnu.
15. Coiche nod gleith clochur slébe. {MS folio 12b 45}
16. Cia on cotagair aesa éscai
17. Cia dú i llaig funiud grene. 1565]
18. Cia beir búar o thig Temrach.
19. Cia buar Tethrach. tibi.
20. Cia dain.
21. Cia dé delbas faebru. a ndind ailsiu.
22. Cáinté im gaí cainte gaithe. Am. 1570]
James Carey's translation: from The Celtic Heroic Age (2003) (pg. 265)
I am a wind in the sea (for depth)
I am a sea-wave upon the land (for heaviness)
I am the sound of the sea (for fearsomeness)
I am a stag of seven combats (for strength)
I am a hawk upon a cliff (for agility)
I am a tear-drop of the sun (for purity)
I am fair (i.e. there is no plant fairer than I)
I am a boar for valour (for harshness)
I am a salmon in a pool (for swiftness)
I am a lake in a plain (for size)
I am the excellence of arts (for beauty)
I am a spear that wages battle with plunder.
I am a god who froms subjects for a ruler
Who explains the stones of the mountains?
Who invokes the ages of the moon?
Where lies the setting fo the sun?
Who bears cattle from the house of Tethra?
Who are the cattle of Tethra who laugh?
What man, what god forms weapons?
Indeed, then;
I invoked a satirist...
a satirist of wind.
R.A.S. MacAllister's translation from Lebor Gabala Erenn (Irish Texts Society, 1941)
I am Wind on Sea,
I am Ocean-wave,
I am Roar of Sea,
I am Bull of Seven Fights,
I am Vulture on Cliff,
I am Dewdrop,
I am Fairest of Flowers,
I am Boar for Boldness,
I am Salmon in Pool,
I am Lake on Plain,
I am a Mountain in a Man,
I am a Word of Skill,
I am the Point of a Weapon (that poureth forth combat),
I am God who fashioneth Fire for a Head.
Who smootheth the ruggedness of a mountain?
Who is He who announceth the ages of the Moon?
And who, the place where falleth the sunset?
Who calleth the cattle from the House of Tethys?
On whom do the cattle of Tethys smile?
Who is the troop, who the god who fashioneth edges
in a fortress of gangrene?
Enchantments about a spear? Enchantments of Wind
Robert Graves was as bad as old Iolo for "paraphrasing" or "imaginative translations" at times. His versions seem very unlike other translations, and of course, we have him to thank for the celtic tree calendar, another fallacy. More romanaticism I'm afraid.
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I thought Tacitus says Calgatus was captured and taken before Caeser, where he made the famous quote "The romans bring a desert, and call it peace". Whether that was spin or not, dunno. But I definately thought he was captured according to Tacitus, lying or otherwise.
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I'm kind of with Amberlady. Doesnt matter if you give the earliest first ever druid to get to Britain an earlier date of some 2,500 years, and a trickle effect instead of a torrent, their coming signalled a change, which was pretty much complete by the time they were here in great numbers. This was due to the druids innovative methods in astrology, using tablets like the coligny calender, and symbolic artwork and jewellery which had the alignments worked into the design which let them mark the seasons and astrological events just as well. EG:
http://api.ning.com/files/0c6A9XxrkIBN*DwRpU4uq45AI7ll9PQjGkTuDa05vg34Azro*Gcgv27QhU64mHhs6NRLwQ8SY8CjJmvuSUA1Fr82vrRMaYIT/300pxNebra_Scheibe.jpg is the pleiades/moon disc.
Priesthoods took power by placing themselves as initiates between you and god too. Not to say the stones werent used. After all, the coming of christianity didnt end previous folk ways, why should the coming of druids have ended the previous ones for them either?
Bit like the way a boombox went out and an ipod came in. They didn't replace one another directly, but it happened.
On the other hand, the ancestors of the druids back in India apparantly had close ties with neolithic Britain, if the Vedas are less about folklore and more about real history, as many now suppose when they see underwater archeaology from the coasts around india backing up some of the stories with reality. Callanais and a Bratishhanistan (sp?) are mentioned.
