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Mr Barford, I can moan about anything I like, this is a public forum and I have as much right to be here as you . To say the figures are unchallenged is folly. You your self have put doubt on the figures saying what you have about trying to pull them apart and mentioning "IF" they were half or a quarter. If those figures were FACT then you wouldnt have to guess would you. The only figures that are not folly on this thread are the government figures for reported finds. Bye

cymap wrote:
The only figures that are not folly on this thread are the government figures for reported finds. Bye
Bye. What IS folly is to ignore the fact that these are but a small proportion of all the finds that have been taken away to fuel the private collecting of archaeological artefacts. (Kevmar, yes, your comment was aside from the topic - and I dont think we need to take a vote on the proposition, there are "detecting" forums on the Internet, if we want to hear what "detectorists" say we can drop in there can't we? ).

Paul Barford

"To say the figures are unchallenged is folly. You your self have put doubt on the figures saying what you have about trying to pull them apart and mentioning "IF" they were half or a quarter."

You appear to have not understood the sense in which "unchallenged" is being used. The counter remains unchallenged in the sense that much supportive evidence has been adduced and zero contrary evidence has been offered. Merely saying it isn't true is no more convincing than a blank denial that the world is round. The figures ARE unchallenged. They are merely the latest and (I would argue) the most comprehensive and painstaking of a long list of examinations of the effects of the hobby all of which, without exception, have suggested exactly the same overall picture.

Paul did indeed try to pull them apart. We asked him to. And he tried to with a degree of knowledge and competence which I doubt could have been obtained elsewhere. They were put through the wringer yet remained robust. What would you have us do, pretend they were wrong because you don't like what they show?

And yes, he is perfectly entitled to ask what would you think if they were half or a quarter as high. My answer to such a question would be "still shameful". How about you?

As for the other reaction to the counter, that we are somehow out to cook the books, all I can do is assure you that isn't the case and never has been. Such an approach could never go unrevealed and would in any case be of no interest to us. When considering the Counter and those who produced it you would be much better keeping Silvia Plath in mind -

Mirror
I am silver and exact. I have no preconceptions.
Whatever I see I swallow immediately
Just as it is, unmisted by love or dislike.
I am not cruel, only truthful.