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Bonjour

I was admiring Ken's photos of Beltany Stone Circle when it struck me how similar it appeared to the King's Men cirle at the Rollrights, in terms of the shape of the stones and also their distribution and distance in relation to eachother. http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/54651

Now I'm wondering. Do you think stone circles served different purposes? There's so many across Great Britain and they all seem different in terms of size of circle and shape of stone and distance and numbers of stone used. I know some stones in circles represent male and female but the similarity between Rollrights and Beltany made me ask myself if they were built with a specific ceremony or function in mind that differs to what some other circles were built for?

Is that a nonsense or has it been exhaustively covered before? It piqued my interest. Any thoughts most welcome!

Cheers
JS

The two circles could have been made by the same group of builders.

PS: CianMcliam - Excellent blog, I loved it!

Odd that I got the same feeling but saw another site there - Nine Stones Close has a similar profile, especially the tall angled stone.

Absolutely stunning photos of Beltany stone circle and the other cromlechs by Ken Williams. Stone circles are an enigma... if they represent male or female stones does it mean gods or representations of the fertile nature of the earth, why are the earlier great blocking stones of longbarrows such as WKLB or Wayland Smith m/f?
Stone circles sometime replace or went alongside timber circles,( which presumably had to be marked to denote their significance) - so are all circles imitations of others - Stanton Drew following Avebury for instance, with a universal meaning of fertility..... The distinct individuality of the stones at the Rollrights and Beltany circles are formed by the local stone found and used. It blows the mind somewhat the idea of circle builders drawing a plan on the ground and then finding the stones to fit the pattern, but then did'nt the Lough Gur circle have a central post hole so that a "rope" line could denote the extent of the circle.

A chap called Jack Morris Eyton has been researching the shape & positions of stones within large circles for a while. Over on TMP he produced an 18 part series of articles based on his findings. If you're interested, you'll find them on the following link under the heading “Last 20 News/Article Submissions from JACKME”

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/user.php?op=userinfo&uname=JACKME

Irish building gangs crossing to England, I've never heard of that! ;0)

That crossed my mind, but I didn't know whether it would be plausible that the same group crossed from Ireland to mainland England. Maybe they built the Kings Men circle on the way to Avebury. I'm think the similarities are striking but maybe it's a coincidence, but even the backdrop looks similar to the Rollrights if you're south-facing.

I know on previous threads that there's a line of thinking that the circles were nothing more than a corale. I personally don't believe that but I'm fascinated how Beltany and Kings men individual stones' are in such close proximity to each other and have defined male and female shapes and are so alike, whilst differing to other stone circles that are closer geographically.

First of all, a hearty thanks for the generous comments on the weblog and photos :) Cheers!

In some ways Beltany and the Rollrights are so similar and in others they are very dis-similar. On the positive side, they did once have almost complete, contiguous circles and are pretty isolated from similar type of monuments, the jagged high and low stone arrangements are also alike at first glance. On the other hand, the Rollrights had a definite 'entrance', I haven't seen or heard of a formal entrance to Beltany Tops, according to Burl the stones in the Rollrights were originally 'crudely graded' in height whereas Beltany has tall stones among lower ones dotted around the place, aren't a lot of the Rollrights broken and others replaced after being torn out of their sockets?

There is the problem of the inner cairn, Burl considers Beltany to perhaps be among the very first 'stone circles' proper, possibly a second generation development coming from the boulder circles of Carrowmore. I'd find it hard to disagree with that, plus the circles at Carrowmore are (or were) completely contiguous with no gap for entry, as Beltany possibly was, with a 'sacred' space inside. This sacred space was a raised artificial platform at Carrowmore and is also at Beltany. What that would suggest to me is that Carrowmore and Beltany belong to the same tradition or belief, that the area inside was seperated from the outside world and the community once the structure was complete. The interior was not designed for access by lowly commoners or perhaps anyone at all except the remains or relics of the ancestors. Seperated from the 'profane' world as Anthony Weir phrases it.

This seems opposite to the Rollrights which it seems was of what we would call the 'traditional' stone circle, the more mainstream Cumbrian type designed as a space where the living, not just the dead, performed rituals/danced/communicated with alien ancestors or whatever. It seems a total shift in 'use', perhaps cult leaders were eventually, over centuries elevated (or manouvered their way) to as high a status as the ancestors and this was the space where living deities were honoured at feast/festival times?

All speculation of course, but I think whatever about the similarities, the circles and the people who built them were very different and had different social/ritual structures.

Get outside Great Britain, and look at such places as Puglia (squared menhirs, often tipped slightly; two styles of dolmen uprights absolutely congruent with the structural capabilities of local atone), the Languedoc (unique for its statue menhirs), Carnac (the fanning rows), Gobekli Tepe (t-shaped, sculpted stones in a radial pattern). Certainly there were regional styles of megaliths. These styles seem to me to have arisen fullblown: there aren't any trial periods, or examples of simpler "generic" models evolving into more explicitly regional ones.

It seems clear to me Mesolithic peoples had distinct local cultures that adapted the *idea* of "megalith" to their own local ideas of beauty and function. What, of course, those local ideas were remains pretty obscure.