Ritual Landscapes

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Secondly, we want to know whether they actually did it: placed, aligned, etc. The idea being that a demonstrated placement, orientation, etc. proves the significance, and thus tells us somewhat of their beliefs. You do see the circularity here? That the view of the hilltop is cited as evidence that the view was important? What, in this one instance, eliminates the much higher probablity that the tiny little easily obscured "view" was pure coincidence? Not a damn thing.

To return to my modern example, and compare it to Fourwinds', what if we looked at all the houses sold last decade and saw that a large majority had "views"? Would that be proof views were a MAJOR CONCERN of highend housebuyers? Not at all. It's entirely possible that the only land suitable for expensive houses is that which has a view. Perhaps soil drainage is only good on hillsides that coincidentally have views, and that's what causes those houses to sell best. We would have to compare all places with views, and demonstrate that no other living-suitable characteristics (drainage, distance from transportation, acceptable amount of land, cell phone reception, who the heck knows what) determined the hot sellers. If ANY, or even a particular COMBINATION, of some other identifiable characteristic of houses was as prevalent even among those with views, we have no PROOF that views were important. "Nice view, but will my mobile work?"

And remember, I've chosen ONE type of landscape feature, and one that we understand to be of some concern to at least some people, as an example.

So, what WOULD be good evidence that the hengers and megalithers were on about the landscape? The Eternal cites a possible methodology: compare the shapes of the site to the shapes of the landscape. I bet he's hard pressed to find another example than Castlerigg. And if there are one or three examples out of thousands, then it's going to be difficult for TE's methodology to make the point that landscape had much meaning for the megalithic culture overall. For the Castleriggers, maybe, but what significance? Perhaps it was a purely aesthetic decision to match stones to horizon.

As in my modern example, we have to eliminate the variables and boil it down to "landscape features" that PRIMARILY determine the placements, orientations or etc. of (at least some category or categories of) sites. The only way to do this is to 1, show that some aspect of the lanscape is apparent or emphasized at a majority of sites (analagous to modern houses having a view) and 2, show that NO OTHER concerns could reasonably account for the "landscape" features of the sites being what they are.

In order to satisfy these two conditions, I proposed a plan of analysis. It ain't gonna happen, folks. Or, well, from our experience and reading, I'd be very deeply surprised if it did. But I DO love surprises!

Blimey Bucky, those are some interesting thoughts.

I think if you're looking at a plan of analysis of views it's important to distinguish two different sorts of views - "significant" ones that come from the brain and "pretty" ones that come from the "heart".

Significant ones: There is/was on the net a Univ of Southampton research paper about "viewsheds" of many monuments in the Avebury area, covering alignments and intervisibility and attempting to draw conclusions about significant views and alignments based on cold statistics rather than individual judgement - which is what you're calling for I think (and I agree). As FW said, we're only just starting on this stuff and there is a huge research potential. Google Earth and some of the contour based mapping software that's coming out is going to open the whole field out.

Pretty ones: Is our modern appreciation of what's a pretty view the same as the Neolithic one? Another thread maybe, but I'd reckon it's a big YES (why wouldn't it be, it's in our nature not our nurture isn't it?) and if so it isn't hard for us to notice what a high proportion of, say, rock art panels have great views from them.
You were implying - "ah, but it's hard to tease out from modern house price statistics whether we really have an impulsion to build where there's a view as there are too many other possible motivations for wanting a house, ergo the same applies to neolithic building". As it happens, I spent a horrible number of years working on regression analysis of house prices to quantify the relative "value" of each factor pertaining to demand for houses and it's plain that "View" does command a measurable value. That being so, I'm inclined to believe the evidence of my own eyes at neolithic sites - the nice view I see is the nice view "they" saw and they and I view it with equal appreciation. To me, it's cross aeon communication - they're almost saying to me - wow, look at this! Whether that's just fanciful in an individual case can never be proved of course, but mass regression analysis, eventually, ought to be able to throw a huge shaft of light on it.

>And remember, I've chosen ONE type of landscape feature, and one that we understand to be of some concern to at least some people, as an example.<

The following may be of interest - http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=23046&message=327131