Spirit of Place

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nigelswift N
nigelswift Jun 27, 2003 10:10:03
Replying to nigelswift

As I was saying....

Then I had my Big Thing. I found that, as often as not, this feeling was magnified hugely at ancient sites. When Shestu talks of spititual experience at ancient sites I guess it’s reporting precisely the same intense feeling of appreciation that I have. But no way can I call it spiritual, other than if that means utterly rational. My affliction remains entirely uncured. And yet, here I am, after a long and wicked life utterly and exceptionally untroubled by the least glimmering of spirituality in any area, going specifically to ancient sites and having intense feelings of appreciation of place that people like Shestu would happily embrace and understand as being spiritual. Oh, shit, how can I rationalize the position, and avoid admitting that Shestu might be right and I’ve been blind all my life? Well, maybe I can’t, and I should admit that I’ve been given a late glimpse of what I’ve missed. I can live with that, I’m not prejudiced against knowing the Truth, whatever it is. But the thing is, the curse of rationality is that it’s a nitpicker, and it won’t let me entertain spirituality until I’ve explored every other possible explanation. And it’s forced me to come up with aesthetics as an explanation, or at least a theory, as to why I have “spiritual” experiences at some of these places.

Quite simply, I think the ancient people had a heightened capacity to appreciate the beauty of “place”, (what I call aesthetics) compared with us, , and sited many of their monuments accordingly. What more human? I speculate that our involvement with towns and buses and Big Brother has dulled us, whereas their lifelong immersion in exclusively natural surroundings made appreciation of it part of their fabric of being, not merely a weekend wonder. So I speculate that our “spiritual” experience at these places is the result of our being able to appreciate, fleetingly and dimly, what they appreciated naturally and effortlessly. For us, a degree of effort is required. Thus, those who are able to entertain the concept of spirituality, often talk of needing to make themselves “open” to the spirit of the place. For poor saps like me, cursed with Rationality, we can sometimes get to the same position of appreciation by apparently irrelevant training of our minds by constantly peering round an easel.

So that’s my testimony on the subject. The Rationality v Spirituality debate is an artificial construct when it comes to these places. Their Spirit is their beauty, but it’s a beauty beyond every-day observation, requiring us to view it with different eyes. Hence, it effectively lies within a different, largely forgotten dimension. If it’s that, we can all agree without quarrelling.

P pebblesfromheaven
pebblesfromheaven Jun 27, 2003 10:16:30
Replying to nigelswift

You have hit my nail so precisely with all that.
I can agree, I am not religious really, but I can appreciate Place.
Sites are more often than not in a good location, either through intent or just from the fact that they have been left alone to just be themselves.
I have real problems trying to Put Myself in Their Shoes.
It's a talent some just don't possess.
But it doesn't mean we can't appreciate things.

.o0O0o.

M Moth
Moth Jun 27, 2003 11:59:36
Replying to nigelswift

A lot of that's more or less what I was trying to say too. Beautifully explained!

love

Moth

S Shestu
Shestu Jun 27, 2003 15:52:37
Replying to nigelswift

Love it!! Nigel.... I think we ARE all in agreement. Many of us have scars from organized religion... the saddest part is that it caused us to fear our true nature.... let the healing begin!
Your a Beauty
Nigel

T TomBo
TomBo Jun 27, 2003 22:28:22
Replying to nigelswift

Nigelswift you dude! That's fascinating stuff. Here's a few random thoughts (in fairly random order):

- Its so hard to talk about any of these things using the language we have. Most English words dealing with these matters have acquired unhelpful connotations from 2000 years of Christianity and, in more recent times, from the new agers. Take "spiritual" - I hate using this word because it is usually taken in a "new age" or a "dark age" (ie. dogmatically religious) sense. But there ain't no other word so I guess I'm stuck with it! I surely prefer it to "religious".

- I'm absolutely with you on the aesthetics thing. I think all I would add to what you've already stated so eloquently is that beauty, the aim of aesthetics, is (for me, I mean) a highly spiritual thing! There's that word again - what I mean is that beauty is good for the soul, that being in beautiful surroundings is good for people. I think we'd all agree on that one! I guess the only other thing I have to say here is that I believe the ancient monuments of Britain to be works of art (I'd like to put that in the singular but I'm not too sure!). Aesthetics is the language of art, but the most satisfying art also carries a message. I've discussed this in my "Subject, Object & Landscape" essay though so I'll not go on about it!

- There are some connotations of the word "spirit" that I do not like, that make talk using that word easily misunderstood. What I'm uncomfortable about is that it imposes a duality on the world that can all too often become a division: the material world vs. the spiritual world. My feeling is that its exactly this view of the world that lies behind the big dogmatic religions, which, of course, will all tell you that the material world is inferior to the spiritual world. The Gnostics, a branch of early Christianity, taught that the material world is nothing but a prison for the soul, that we are each of us souls incarcerated in matter. Blake believed pretty much the same thing: that the Biblical "fall" from grace (actually only sort of implied in the Bible and derived more from Milton's Paradise Lost) was the fall of our collective soul into the imprisoning chains of matter. I could not disagree more! Just look at the beauty of the natural world - this is no prison. Where am I going with all this? I'm just trying to say, I suppose, that I find my spirituality in the material world. I have no need to go looking for other realities when (most of!) this one is so beautiful and inspiring. I certainly agree with Julian when he talks about worshipping only what he can see. Of course I wouldn't swing from one extreme to the other, mind (ie. from distrust of all "worldly things" to rampant materialism). Balance in everything. But I strongly believe that we are, at least here and now, physical, material creatures with bodies, and that therefore we should concern ourselves largely with the material, physical world. "Don't tell be 'bout your heaven in the hereafter, but set to building heaven in the here & now" is my cry!