Re: Jeremy Corbyn | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Jeremy Corbyn

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grufty jim Sep 7, 2015 14:34:36

Replying to Locodogz

Locodogz wrote:

I won't often take issue with your views but....

The Tories south of the border made huge political capital out of the 'vote Labour, get the SNP card' so yes, to answer your question the SNP (or the spectre thereof) may well have influenced a vote or two in Bolton West....

I'd love to see some evidence of that. Every post-election analysis I have read (and I've read several) concluded that the issue was not a factor in the English vote in Tory/Labour marginals.

I'm well aware that the Tories tried very hard to make it an issue, but I've not read a single convincing report since the election that shows they succeeded. The overwhelming consensus is that Labour lost the election because they didn't engage with the electorate, not because the SNP were perceived as holding sway over them.

Captain Starlet Sep 7, 2015 14:40:44

Replying to grufty jim

A lot of people I know mostly voted labour just to be rid of the tories. From what I saw of the past 5 years, and the whole election debacle was that there was so much division and little to no opposition.

Did the tories win because more people believe in them? No, they won because of the fact that there was no opposition and a disenfranchised electorate who saw no one to vote for, as far as I'm concerned.

Hopefully with Corbyn (assuming he wins) we'll have a genuine opposition party again, not one who abstains on important issues and does very little to support the people of Britain, and further.

Locodogz Sep 8, 2015 14:20:12

Replying to grufty jim

Hmmm at the risk of straying into Dodge type territory I'd counter your 'show me evidence that it did' with a 'show me evidence that it didn't'?!?

The only evidence that I can offer I fear is the huge effort that the Tories (and Tory press) put behind the 'vote Labour, get the SNP card' - almost to the exclusion of any other argument. Grasping, manipulative but not (entirely) stupid - I'd suggest that they wouldn't have done this if they didn't think it would play to their advantage?

I think that most of us here come from a leftist - wouldn't vote Tory if my life depended on it stance. As such its hard to accept/understand that there are (if the polls be believed) many many people who will flit between the parties. For one I find it completely plausible that there were significant numbers of marginal Labour supporters whose fear/dislike of the SNP would be enough to if not change their vote, then persuade them not to cast it.

BTW I agree that - in the myriad of reasons that Labour lost the election, a basic failure to connect with the wider electorate was undoubtedly a major factor. I'd just disagree with your assertion that the SNP performance north of the border had no impact on the Labour vote south of it.