Re: Alastair Campbell ... | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Jeremy Corbyn

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grufty jim Aug 11, 2015 14:21:41

Replying to stray

stray wrote:

Oh well. Thanks for adding some more support to Corbyns campaign Mr Campbell. When are these twats going to realise that they're 'oh noes, the sky will turn red and rain frogs if Corbyn wins' pronouncements are having the complete opposite effect to what they intend. As they're as universally despised by those who will actually be voting as any face on the Tory front bench is.

All we need now is a confused rivers of Trotskyists turning investment banks into creche's speech from David Blunkett.

It continually amazes me that so many members of the New Labour Project - a party that elevated spin and presentation to hitherto unseen heights; that relied on perception above policy more than almost any other in recent times - can possess such a singular lack of self-awareness.

It was like when Blair came out during the last General Election campaign... he genuinely believed he would gain votes for Labour. As opposed to - I suspect - driving those on the Labour left further towards Green and those on the Labour right further towards the tories. There is a serious* campaign to get the guy tried as a war criminal ferchristsakes; he is a million miles from the statesmanlike, unifying figure as which he has cast himself.

I still think Corbyn will end up splitting the Labour Party. And while that may well be the best thing for it in the long run; it could also be risky and go terribly wrong with what's remaining of the UK mainstream left splitting into factions as several visions of how to rebuild the party emerge.

Also, at the same time the lack of an effective left wing opposition may well allow the current British government to accelerate further their destruction of the welfare state. I believe this is a crucial period in terms of addressing some serious long-term problems for our culture - globally, as well as here in Western Europe - and it pains me to see these problems being ignored and/or intensified by a political landscape dominated by apologists for predatory capitalism.

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* serious in the sense that a lot of people take it seriously; not in the sense that it might be successful.

stray Aug 11, 2015 15:03:58

Replying to grufty jim

grufty jim wrote:

Agreed, but if Corbyn wins the leadership I think there will be quite a long period when the right of the party will just stare into the headlights and fail to organise themselves at all.

Sure, they'll refuse shadow cabinet positions, and whine on a lot, but I don't think they're stupid enough to completely destroy the party. Or that they actually could destroy the party. The real split I think emerging is between the PLP and the Constituencies (the split with the Unions has been there for a very long time), and the Constituencies are taking advantage of the new democracy to force the PLP to address their concerns, their policies, ideologies and beliefs. It's not hard-left obviously, but it's definitely left. The great positive I can see coming out of a Corbyn leadership is that it could possibly move the overton window more to the left. That socialist ideas are not anachronistic.

A split between the parlimentary party and the branches/constituencies is not a new thing (the Tories have muddled on with the same split quite well after all through many years), but Labour has now given theirs power in the debate. Corbyns proposals are primarily to continue this approach into setting policy, from the membership up. I'm really, really looking forward to seeing the shape the next party conference takes if he is the Leader.

Although the question of the opposition being effective is a concern, it can't possibly be any less effective than it is now. Although I'm not sure about seeing Diane Abbot on a front bench again, she's an opportunist/careerist imo and I can't see her support of Corbyn as anything more than her glimpsing a possible shadow (and later a cabinet) position. What is at question is if Corbyn can hold onto the leadership going into the next election, because that would be interesting. I'd expect to see a much younger selection of candidates, and a large change in the makeup of the elected party if he did get that far. New New Labour.