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geoffrey_prime G
geoffrey_prime May 21, 2009 00:30:47
Replying to Merrick

It does end here, because you will always disagree with my position.
Q: Firstly, how do you square your position as a believer in democracy with your support for the most undemocratic institutions in the country?
A: Quite simple, I value the traditional and historical position of the UK as a monarchy and feel the democratic requirements of governance have been achieved through the evolution of a constutional monarchy.

Q2: Secondly, do you still maintain that David Cameron is not on the take
A2: Yes
Q3: that he's a principled person?
A3: Yes
Q4: Or do you agree that a millionaire who complains about the squandering of public funds is a weasel for taking 80 grand of public money?
A4: No, its a perfectly valid expense claim for the running of a second home, in respect of mortgae interest etc. I am not aware of him switching second homes, profiting from 2nd home sales, failing to pay capital gains tax on sales, making extravegant claims for pools, tennis courts, gardens, etc etc. I can only think that your clear predjucice against Cameron is based on class and wealth.
Q5: As Jim said, as long as there's one person on a hospital waiting list, how can you see any grey area there?
A5: This is a tired old left-wing position...haven't you twigged yet that money is not the key factor in respect of hospital waiting lists..and providing effective public services in general - Labour have been throwing money at public services, like there is no tomorrow, hoping that things will improve....
I am tax'd out...and pissed off, because the government have been taking more and delivering less.
Realistically, whether you like it or not, only the Tories can get us out of the current mess...and its going to be a long haul.
Sorry to all my Leftie friends, but this will be 1979 all over again.

C CraigR
CraigR May 21, 2009 01:58:59
Replying to geoffrey_prime

Base, childish and completely devoid of political opinion it may be, but I have to say it.

You my friend, are an arse.

I IanB
IanB May 21, 2009 09:07:54
Replying to geoffrey_prime

geoffrey_prime wrote:
Realistically, whether you like it or not, only the Tories can get us out of the current mess...and its going to be a long haul. Sorry to all my Leftie friends, but this will be 1979 all over again.
Maybe so. Maybe so. But the Tories are not going to get us out of this mess. No experience of building anything. No experience of running anything. Just a decade of tearing down other people down. If they win it is because in political terms they are our tallest midgets not because of the dawn of a new era of Tory values (whatever they may be in this century).

You could close the Commons, open a small office for rubber stamping European law and NOTHING would change in terms of the daily lives of ordinary Britons. The very many MPs we do have that are honest, decent, hard working and true would be better served (and better servants) standing as independents in local government.

Blues. Reds. Donkeys. Elephants. It's over.

Anyway - all this is very much like the debates about Kiss on the other board. Hard wired opinions thrown around like bricks. Though I would like to hear from Merrick on how his vision of society is to work.

M Merrick
Merrick May 21, 2009 13:21:35
Replying to geoffrey_prime

geoffrey_prime wrote:
It does end here, because you will always disagree with my position.
I won't if you can satisfactorily explain why your position is justified. I will disagree with something I see as unjust or unsubstantiated, and I will explain why. I expect anyone else expressing an opinion to do the same.

geoffrey_prime wrote:
I value the traditional and historical position of the UK as a monarchy
What does that mean? How has it been a good thing to have people given a position of wealth, power and influence based on who their parents are rather than any merit?

geoffrey_prime wrote:
the democratic requirements of governance have been achieved through the evolution of a constutional monarchy.
Where we've achieved democracy it's been in spite of, not due to, those who believe in rule of the people's will rather than rule of those with most money.

In what way has the monarchy assisted the evolution of democracy rather than been a bar (or, at best, an irrelevance) to it?

geoffrey_prime wrote:
its a perfectly valid expense claim for the running of a second home
Surely the second home should belong to the job. instead, we buy a second home for the individual doing the job, then when they leave we buy another one for their successor. whilst this may be 'valid' in terms of the rules the MPs invented for themselves, it is clearly unjust.

If you ran a company, would you be happy buying your travelling employees second homes to keep?

Do you think the MPs of all parties who refused second home allowance on principle are wrong?

geoffrey_prime wrote:
I can only think that your clear predjucice against Cameron is based on class and wealth.
In part, yes. I resent it more because he clearly doesn't need that money. Sat amidst his millions, he could set an example (or, more accurately, follow the example of a poorer backbencher of his own party) and not squeeze the public for what is, to him, a piffling amount of money.

Do you really think there's no hypocrisy in saying public money is being squandered whilst taking money you don't need for your own personal benefit?

geoffrey_prime wrote:
haven't you twigged yet that money is not the key factor in respect of hospital waiting lists
It is certainly a factor. But it's also clear that the hospital thing is a kind of short hand in this discussion. Whilst there are people suffering for want of paltry sums, is it not galling to have a millionaire taking tens of thousands of pounds of public money to buy him a second home to keep?

geoffrey_prime wrote:
Labour have been throwing money at public services, like there is no tomorrow, hoping that things will improve
Dunno where you live, but it's not like that in a lot of places. They've been putting some PFI money in (our children won't have basic services as they'll have spent the NHS budget paying today's overpriced contract holders).

geoffrey_prime wrote:
Realistically, whether you like it or not, only the Tories can get us out of the current mess
They still favour PFI for public services. That is a giveaway of inflated sums to private hands.

But I think we've clearly bigger problems than MPs on the take or the economic crisis. Resource depletion and climate change tower over these. The Conservatives plan is to stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalala at those. Their plan is to keep accelerating toward the precipice.