What is better than Capitalism?

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Dog 3000 D
Dog 3000 Sep 9, 2003 21:55:12
Replying to morfe lux

A funny joke, true. Does a good job pointing out the problems with "aquisition for aquisition's sake" but I think that is more of a cultural than economic issue.

It kind of misses the point because obviously we can't all live the easy life of the Mexican fisherman in the story. Think of a city like London or New York -- 10 million people in a crowded area are all supposed to get their own boats and catch a few fish every day? Not feasible in any way.

In order to support the population we have, people need to specialize. One guy builds a whole lot of boats, another guy catches a whole lot of fish, etc. Farmers out in Sussex (is that a rural area?) or Nebraska ship in grain (cuz the fish supply around London/NY is limited and you don't want to over-fish) and so forth.

Of course you can say "we should all go back to nature and lead simple lives" but again I don't see how that can be accomplished without the death of millions. Think of someplace as densely populated as China -- it was only through "modernisation" of their economy that they've finally been able to feed everyone in the first place! (There was still mass starvation even under Mao.)

Basically . . . you can't go back without reducing the earth's population a LOT. There is no way but forward.

M morfe lux
morfe lux Sep 9, 2003 22:03:18
Replying to Dog 3000

Think of a city like London or New York -- 10 million people in a crowded area are all supposed to get their own boats and catch a few fish every day? Not feasible in any way.

Exactly, that's what expansionist capitalism does, it creates a machine that we have to live in.

M morfe lux
morfe lux Sep 9, 2003 22:13:45
Replying to Dog 3000

That joke was not a way of saying we had to go backward. It was a way of saying we do not HAVE to all be mass consumers. We cannot 'go back to nature', nature is held in contempt of our collective ego. We like to think that there were no happy, productive people before industrialisation, and the only way forward is by filling up the 'space' with more and more consumers, longer and longer lives, and unchecked 'growth'. 'Growth' means everything, from employment to increased military hardware. I actually believe that sustainable technology can eventually give us the means to enjoy a more natural environment again. I am not an advocate of the 'box' concept of life, living and working in boxes with boxlike transit systems. A full and active, harmonic life means being part of the natural world we live in, not to just supplant it with man-made goods. Don't ask me how to qualify this, it just DOES, ok!

Enhancement and harmony is a real goal I believe, not violent growth and development for the sake of profit alone.

M morfe lux
morfe lux Sep 9, 2003 22:13:47
Replying to Dog 3000

That joke was not a way of saying we had to go backward. It was a way of saying we do not HAVE to all be mass consumers. We cannot 'go back to nature', nature is held in contempt of our collective ego. We like to think that there were no happy, productive people before industrialisation, and the only way forward is by filling up the 'space' with more and more consumers, longer and longer lives, and unchecked 'growth'. 'Growth' means everything, from employment to increased military hardware. I actually believe that sustainable technology can eventually give us the means to enjoy a more natural environment again. I am not an advocate of the 'box' concept of life, living and working in boxes with boxlike transit systems. A full and active, harmonic life means being part of the natural world we live in, not to just supplant it with man-made goods. Don't ask me how to qualify this, it just DOES, ok!

Enhancement and harmony is a real goal I believe, not violent growth and development for the sake of profit alone.