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Howburn Digger H
Howburn Digger Jun 13, 2017 22:58:08
Replying to nigelswift

nigelswift wrote:
I think the old boy summed up the reality on TV last night: The next 2 years are going to comprise Europe saying, over and over, "No, THESE are the terms".
"Leave" have constantly implied we have a strong hand and we don't. We don't even have one in discussion with the DUP. Gove has just said "we must ensure Brexit is blah, blah, blah". I bet he knows better.
We can only have any kind of strong hand when we leave. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Britain's weakened hands have been shackled for decades. They will try and make us pay heavily yet again to take the cuffs off. For the last forty years while we were cuffed, Britain's Economy was being kicked to pieces. It really suited the 80's and 90's Tories and Blair and Brown just lapped it up. Then someone called "Game's A Bogey!", their phoney markets crashed and lots of poor people in Britain and Europe were made to feel real pain. The Thatcher/ Major pain was just a decade or two's softening up...

Austerity was an EU order. "These are the terms - Austerity". That is where Austerity came from -> The EU. That is where our farming policy has come from -> The EU. Our fishing policies -> The EU. Industrial Policies -> The EU. Mining? -> The EU (All coalfields in Southern Scotland were shut overnight a few years back -> The EU). The Water Industry -> The EU (lots of English Water is now owned by private European Companies).The Banking Industry -> The EU (dodged a bullet there with the worthless Euro eh?). We have had our own nation's economic policies thrust upon us by the EU for decades. European Law dictates which Scottish ferries can run to which Scottish Islands (why?).

As long as we were in the EU we had no strong hand in any of our nation's policies or the ability to make any decisions about what was best for Britain's Interests. Germany still mines loads of coal and builds stacks of new coal power stations. Europe sells us turbines that don't turn cause its not windy enough.

I am glad some people have noticed a common theme.

N nigelswift
nigelswift Jun 14, 2017 05:42:54
Replying to Howburn Digger

Howburn Digger wrote:
I am glad some people have noticed a common theme.
If by common theme you mean the exit negotiations will be a continuation of perfidious Europe, no, I see a negotiation in which the Europe side has infinitely less to lose and is therefore bound to control.

Howburn Digger wrote:
As long as we were in the EU we had no strong hand in any of our nation's policies or the ability to make any decisions about what was best for Britain's Interests.
It's a seductive line, the short version of which - "let's take back control" was put on the side of a bus. The actuality is that EU membership HAD to include the ceding of part of our sovereignty but was seen by successive governments as well worth it. I just don't see how a simple majority, 52-48, could have been deemed adequate, or adequately informed, to have brought it to an end.

"Austerity was an EU order." It clearly wasn't as it is now ending and we're still in Europe.

I concede that our regions furthest from the heart of Europe have suffered decline but who would trust the Tories to match European subsidies to those areas indefinitely? Already that nice Mr Gove is in post and slavering to do his worst.