Another Election

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thesweetcheat wrote:
I don't particularly want to get into making personal comments, but since I've been mentioned by name I will just say that what I believe in is equality and social justice. I believe that these things are being deliberately prevented by Tory policies and I would like to understand why people keep voting for inequity and inequality as a choice.

Tony Wilson said this about socialism, and it's good enough for me as the basis for how I think about most political issues. Underneath all the flannel and spin, this is at the heart of my political views:

"Socialism isn't complex, it means a deep, central belief, natural in your heart, that the poor should not be so poor and the rich should not be so rich".

I genuinely struggle to understand why people do not think that this is how a just and fair society should operate, or why people vote Tory in the full knowledge that doing so increases inequality as the few get better off at the expense of the many. Arguments that we can't afford to provide for the needy are clearly nonsensical when the UK is the fifth wealthiest country on the planet - what's needed is wealth redistribution, not cuts. I personally believe in proportionate taxation of wealth, and pay a pretty big chunk of my income in tax (certainly a much bigger percentage that the corporations who earn billions do). I do so in the hope that it is used wisely by those in power, but see no evidence of this from the Tory government that had mishandled the economy far worse than any Labour government ever did, while ensuring that those with vested interests (Capita, Serco, G4, etc) continue to profit handsomely from the taxpayer while delivering far worse services for more money.

I am not ashamed of my beliefs and therefore I answer questions about them from sanshee and Littlestone (why I voted remain, etc). My answers are only my opinion. I do struggle to understand what makes Tory voters so reluctant to give their reasons for voting Tory. None of the three people in this thread who have stated, without being asked or pressured, that they will vote Tory have been willing to say which Tory policies have made them take this decision. My own opinion on Tory policies is that they are geared to helping the selfish and greedy, or those with right wing views. But that's merely my opinion and I must be missing something, because there is obviously an attraction to voting Tory that I can't for the life of me see but many others can.

Hi tsc.

A measured and heartfelt post. May I say however that there's often a tendency (and I'm probably guilty of this as well) to be selective in one's replies. For example (returning to earlier posts), I never said that Yugoslavia was in Europe, I said the EU did little or nothing to prevent the Yugoslav Wars. Nor did the EU, as an aspiring federal unit, do anything to address the appalling conditions at the Calais Jungle Camp - a camp within its very own borders. Nor indeed has the EU a coherent policy on the migrant issue. When push comes to shove individual EU states tend to act in their own interests leaving, in this case, an impoverished Greek economy to bear the brunt of the problem. It’s this lack of moral conviction on the part of the EU that worries me very, very deeply and makes me think that it (the EU) is really no more than a monstrous capitalist wolf in sheep’s clothing. I might be totally wrong about that however and am prepared to say so here. Time will tell.

On the question of the Tory manifesto (that you also raised elsewhere) unless I’ve missed it that manifesto is yet to be published so it’s a little difficult for me to comment on it even if I wanted to. That aside, I’ve made it abundantly clear here and elsewhere that I am not a Tory voter but a Theresa May supporter (and I’ll take what might seem a contradiction of terms on the chin there). I support May because I’m of the opinion that she is the only party leader we have at present with the wherewithal to steer us through some very, very tricky Brexit negotiations. If anyone can suggest someone else to get us through those negotiations I’m all ears. Meanwhile remember that Theresa May has been an MP for twenty years and the longest-serving Home Secretary for over 60 years – that’s a formidable track record and not one to be casually brushed aside.

That said, come the next election (after this one) I shall be voting according to my conscience which, surprising as it may seem, is not that far removed from your own. :-)

Why is May terrified of Sturgeon?

Keeping it brief if I can.

My dad spend a lot if time in the 50s/60s in Yugoslavia and said it was a powder keg of racial, nationalist and religious tension back then. The EU is not a peacekeeping force for non-EU countries (despite scaremongering by Leave over the prospect of an EU army) - my original comment was about it uniting the member states in an unprecedented peace, rather than preventing wider conflicts. I doubt anything the EU could have done would have prevented what happened in Yugoslavia, which was probably the uneasiest union of disparate countries and religions the continent had seen.

The Jungle was a terrible thing but again look at the causes, Western interference and military aggression in the countries where the refugees came from. The EU as an organisation did not decide to bomb Syria or invade Libya and Iraq. IS was not caused by the EU. A mess was made of homing the refugees, but the EU did not create the problem and again it has nothing to with my original point about promoting peace between member states.

As for May's record. She was a terrible Home Secretary. Poverty, homelessness, foodbank use and suicide all soared on her watch. She slashed the police force while trying to scrap human rights laws. And as for her chosen cabinet of chief Brexiteers - would you trust David Davies to successfully get to the shops for a pint of milk, let alone represent the interests of Britain? I'd trust a competent professional like Kier Starmer over Davies, Fox and Johnson all day long.

Actually if she is telling the truth about the necessity of pulling together behind her on negotiations, she should scrap this election and form a cross-party cabinet of the best and most able politicians to deal with Brexit, then dissolve parliament once the negotiations are concluded and go to the country with the negotiated deal. If it really is the most serious challenge to Britain since WW2, why not treat it like that? The reason is because she is pushing the interests of the Conservative party over the interests of the country, especially given the expenses investigations that have the potential to wipe out her majority.

As an aside, two of the Leave voters on this forum are in Scotland and I wonder if they feel May and the Conservatives offer the best alternative for delivering the kind of Brexit they would like to see?