Re: Carol Thatch | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

Carol Thatch

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pooley Feb 12, 2009 14:47:48

Replying to Squid Tempest

Squid Tempest wrote:

pooley wrote:

Personally - i think that the older generations racism is beyond curing - it is a cancer that has spread to far into their very being and the only cure is death (I am not advocating murder of racists, for the easily shocked, i am saying that their racism will end with their deaths). For some of the older generation casual racism is inbred. When my grandad was near the end in hospital he said to me "they got a black nurse looking after me - i was a bit worried, but she's alright".
His surprise that a black nurse could be anything other than inferior was amusing, sad and a lesson learned too late.
We accept racism in our elders aa they accept the bed wetting of children - they know no better and bollocking them for it is counter productive. you are going to upset your elderly relative and not change them. So, well done - to make your self feel better an old man with not a lot of idea about what he has done wrong is upset.
Ok, end of rant. for now

Did you actually read my other post? If so, you will have noticed that my other grandad did see the error of his racism late in life (he was over 70), and became stridently anti-racist in his later years. But only after my mum and I talked to him about it. This kind of ruins your argument, don't you think? To assume that older people can't think is very negative and rather age-ist. Try to think of them as human beings, it helps. And I wasn't doing it to "make myself feel better" - what an insult to my intelligence. I was doing it precisely because I think that racism is hateful and should be sought out and removed (like the cancer you yourself describe it as) whereever possible.

I did read your post, and am glad that he repented. I'm sure you will agree that he is the exception, and not the rule.But still, great.
I don't think it ruins my argument at all - It just means that one old boy, and good on him, saw the error of his ways - as a story, it's great as a statistic it is meaningless. sorry, but it is.
Ok, to add to my many other faults I am now ageist. Ok, I can lve with it if you'd like to believe that.
Try to think of them as human beings? great advice, i'll endeavour to give it a go.
I was not assuming that the elderly (or coffin dodgers, if it helps fulfill your opinion of me).
As for not doing it to make yourself feel better, I don't believe you. I don't mean to be insulting, but I'm trying to be honest. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Squid Tempest Feb 12, 2009 15:06:51

Replying to pooley

pooley wrote:

So where are your foolproof statistics that he was the exception not the rule? Anything to back that up? Thought not. Until that is proven I will continue to attempt to whittle away at racism bit by little bit.

And even if he was the exception, every mind opened is a victory against racism.

And, yes, you are wrong. I was not doing it to try to please myself, apart from the fact that I wouldn't be able to face myself if I didn't speak up for my own point of view. Do you prefer to keep your opinions to yourself just because it gives you an easy ride? How does that poem go?

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

stray Feb 12, 2009 15:39:44

Replying to pooley

pooley wrote:

As for not doing it to make yourself feel better, I don't believe you. I don't mean to be insulting, but I'm trying to be honest. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

What on earth ? Why are you attacking somebody for doing the right thing because you don't think that their motives for doing the right thing were correct ? Seriously, please explain how this level of suspicious derision is worthwhile. A lot of us do know Squid personally, and yes you're wrong, and no it definitely isn't the first time. What the hell, your posts are just personal attacks now. Sort yourself out.

You're just doing it again aren't you ? Thrashing around trying to score points against somebody because you actually have no argument anymore. People have discussed the points you've made, found them to be shallow, hypocritical or counterproductive, or in short they just disagree with you. Rather than then simply backing off, agreeing to disagree, or sensibly defending your point.. You just stick out your tongue and attempt to continue with the weakest of Sophistry. Or we get stuff like this series of posts here, hysterically awful and ugly as they are 'Well.. I'm a better person than you, you're a fake, you only challenge (x) to make you feel better *sticks out tongue, again*' Listen to yourself, think hard about what you're saying here. Stop resorting to constructing strawmen. Stop projecting your dim view of others on any poor sod who genuinely tries to understand or debate with you when they refuse to just accept and agree with you. Just stop.

If, as you posted earlier in this thread you truly are annoyed with how its gone then lock it please, it's your thread. It would show some consistency.