Teetering on the brink of the new Depression

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grufty jim G
grufty jim Sep 23, 2008 20:46:03
Replying to stray

stray wrote:
If I've got what you're arguing for wrong though, I apologise, you'll have to set me straight.
To an extent you have my position right, stray. Though you're seeing it through a rather narrow filter (no fault of yours, I've not explained it and I don't expect you to be psychic).

What needs to be understood about my position is that it's far more extreme and wide-ranging than you suggested. I'm talking about a top-to-bottom restructuring of our entire society.

I do not claim to be in possession of a detailed plan of how this can be achieved, though I am going to start working on one fairly soon (as soon as I complete my current project).

I believe that our society is suffering from a psychosis. And I use that word in the literal sense. As you may or may not know I'm just about to complete a Masters degree in Psychoanalytic Studies, specialising in Group Psychodynamics. I believe I can demonstrate that the twin mechanisms of a global free-market in resources and the international media have generated a collective psyche that includes most of the human race. I also believe this collective psyche is suffering from a psychosis.

Indeed, it is my thesis that the following two statements are saying the same thing in different language (the first in the language of environmental systems theory, the second in the language of group psychodynamics):

1. "This society is unsustainable"
2. "The collective mind generated by this society is suffering from a psychosis"

My point about the credit crisis is that I believe the sooner we begin this process of radical restructuring the more likely we are to succeed (though I also feel there's a chance it may already be too late). The money being used in this bail-out could instead be used to kick-start this process.

It won't be of course. And I'm not suggesting that there's even a sliver of hope that the Dubya Bush administration would be so forward-thinking or so radical. I'm merely expressing my opinion on the issue.

EDIT: For those interested in Group Psychodynamics; the field has evolved significantly over the past 100 years. Briefly (and therefore not very accurately) it begins with Freud's "Civilization and Its Discontents" and evolves through the work of Bion, Fromm, Reich and finally to arguably the most important person in the field, Gregory Bateson. If anyone wants suggestions as to further reading in the area, I'd be happy to make some recommendations.

S stray
stray Sep 23, 2008 23:04:32
Replying to grufty jim

oh right. Sorry, personally I'm looking at this, and possible outcomes in a more rational sense than you obviously are. I'm not looking at it in 'a come the glorious day comrades' sense, but more in a 'whats going to happen then ?' sense from my understanding of economics and how the market works. I sit back and eat popcorn watching it all play out, and how it effects the election over there. I'm not even pretending I have a solution, other than a nihilistic 'kill the fucking market' branch of Marxism. Sure, I'm an anachronism, what of it ? Which is why I'm sticking to straightforward analsyis, and guessing the outcome further down the road.

You're disregarding the mathematical and legal mechanics in favour of some airy-fairy psychological group dynamic argument. Fair enough. But discussing your ideas with you would just cause my eyes to roll until they fall out. Sorry.

Yeah, the market is a mess because our underlying pyschology and society are fucked. Thats a lovely piece of sophistry, not one its possible to argue with now is it ? I also love how you validate it further by describing the depth of history there is, in research terms, into your field *eye roll* oopise, there they go, better stop.

I'm sure you're perfectly qualified to come up with a newly restructured society, with an associative financial system, that will make us all well behaved non greed orientated fluffy bunnies *eye roll*--plop* shit, lost one. Seriously, I'm slowly walking away from you now *waves* All hail emperor Grufty. I'll stick to political argument in a political field.

If you however manage to come up with something, anything, not based on a subjective analysis of a limited case study then please let me know.

Edit : Yes the 'system' effects our group psychology. FFS. SO ??? Regulation/correction naturally occurs within any system. To even go down the road that you can fix any system from a purely symptomatic approach from a subjective POV is the road to madness. I know of this, for complex systems are my field. Yes, I did go mad.

tl;dr. Its obvious, nothing new and you're approach to solve the problem is entirely the wrong way round. A problem which frankly you aren't qualified to understand.