Re: Tories and unemployment benefits | Forum

Tories and unemployment benefits

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pooley Aug 18, 2008 13:14:32

Replying to Merrick

Merrick wrote:

pooley wrote:

I know loads of people who wont get a job as they are better of on the dole

Can you agree that there are more people than jobs? (As there are 1.6 million unemployed, that seems like you can)

Can you agree that there are always going to be more people than jobs?

If so, we face several options, and I'm wondering which you'd consider best;

1) We make the large pool of unemployed play musical chairs for the smaller pool of jobs

2) We remove benefits from those without a job

3) We find those who can live full and contented lives on the bare minimum, and give them dole, focusing our benefits budget on those who actually want help into work.

As an employer, I find it extraordinary that there are more people than jobs (as you claim, I don't know the figures so cant agree or disagree). I'm always struggling to fill positions for good fairly well paid jobs. In my experience, there is a lack of suitable people to fill the positions available.
To me, this means a huge retraining program is in order - I simply can not accept that anyone who doesn't need to should spend their whole lives on benefit, without giving something back.
Does that make me a Nazi, or worse a tory?? I have no idea.
The idea that we should find people that want to do nothing all day, at the expense of everyone else is awful, to me. I'd love to do fuck all, but I have a family and I have to work.

shanshee_allures Aug 18, 2008 13:35:17

Replying to pooley

My other half was at school with some of these guys, now in their 40s, who have spent a lifetime not only not working but with a frightening aversion to even going to the library FFS. There is something cultural going on and it's stuck and it ain't good.

I just don't accept that whole mentality portrayed in that awful sitcom 'Bread', where a cheeky dole scrounging family have five cars parked outside and a big kitty jar with £100s a week flooding in etc.
Most of the 'dole dependants' (when it gets that bad, and let's not pussy foot coz it actually does) are more Cash Converters and Provvy lines at Xmas, then hiding from the collector the rest of the year (you know what? I've actually seen this from my window!).

I want money, I need it, so now the wee one's starting school I'm getting myself a part time job but when I wasn't working I spent the rest of the time getting on with a degree (nearly done).

P'raps we need to encourage some people to engage themselves in something other than work first, just a bit of routine, purpose. I really don't give a stuff about statistics here, they're often reductive and pretty useless, just 'looking around you' is often enough.

grufty jim Aug 18, 2008 13:39:47

Replying to pooley

pooley wrote:

As an employer, I find it extraordinary that there are more people than jobs (as you claim, I don't know the figures so cant agree or disagree).

pooley, it took me (literally) 30 seconds on google to discover the following (direct from the UK government's National Statistics Office):

The unemployment rate was 5.4 per cent for the three months to June 2008, up 0.2 over the previous quarter but unchanged over the year. The number of unemployed people increased by 60,000 over the quarter and by 15,000 over the year, to reach 1.67 million.
...
There were 634,900 job vacancies for the three months to July 2008, down 47,400 over the previous quarter and down 23,200 over the year. Most sectors showed falls in vacancies over the quarter with the largest falls occurring in distribution, hotels and restaurants (down 17,700) and finance and business services (down 16,200).

So there are almost a million more unemployed people than there are jobs available. It's a point that needs to be answered by those who argue that actively punishing those who are on long-term benefits (making them work, in often very unpleasant jobs, for substantially lower than minimum wage) is in any way acceptable.

And it's worth pointing out that extra million is just going to get larger during this economic downturn.

Moon Cat Aug 18, 2008 17:59:27

Replying to pooley

Doesn't some of what you say imply that everyone that is on benefits is literally doing 'nothing/fuck all' all day? Is there not a possibility that certain people on benefits may actually still be 'doing' things - things that happen not to pay - voluntary work or other things. I think it's a bit broad to define, and by association condemn, everyone on benefits as simply 'doing nothing'.

Sir John Dunn Aug 20, 2008 16:57:12

Replying to pooley

pooley wrote:

Merrick wrote:

pooley wrote:

I know loads of people who wont get a job as they are better of on the dole

Can you agree that there are more people than jobs? (As there are 1.6 million unemployed, that seems like you can)

Can you agree that there are always going to be more people than jobs?

If so, we face several options, and I'm wondering which you'd consider best;

1) We make the large pool of unemployed play musical chairs for the smaller pool of jobs

2) We remove benefits from those without a job

3) We find those who can live full and contented lives on the bare minimum, and give them dole, focusing our benefits budget on those who actually want help into work.

Pooley, with employers like you, who needs Nazi Tories? You are the problem, not the solution.

Is this a money thing? Do you honestly believe that you would pay less tax if everyone had a job?

Who cares whether people work or not? We’ll all be dead soon, anyway.

Wiggy Aug 21, 2008 12:31:49

Replying to pooley

So will you be offering to provide good quality training for candidates with potential?