Alcohol

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Locodogz L
Locodogz Jan 20, 2009 12:15:40
Replying to Vybik Jon

Interesting debate - not sure there's too much disagreement here though - those who have a problem with alcohol should get/be given help, education - those who don't should continue to enjoy alcohol.

I apologise if I'm reading to much into peoples posts here but those most staunchly advocating a ban seem to feel that alcohol took their lives somewhere that they didn't want to be? Me, I don't feel that way - I'm fairly sure that Mrs LD doesn't and I'd die before I did anything to compromise my children - oh but I do enjoy the odd drink and have even been known to get a little tipsy from time to time.

Vybik - you know it pains me to pick you up on anything you say HOWEVER...

Vybik Jon wrote:
I think it's because on a drug usage/harm to others comparison, alcohol is way out in front.
Whilst you're undoubtedly right in terms of absolute numbers of cases it has to be is related to usage*. I'd guess (and it is a guess) that 60 - 70% of those who drink alcohol do so without creating social problems, ending up in A&E etc, I'd imagine that only a very small % of heroin users can keep it a harmless recreation? Interesting debate as to where cannibis sits between these two poles - I'd image? Given this maths and the duty raised by alcohol it is even possible that the damage/treatments required are even self funding - although I'm going way out of my depth here - albeit by a alcohol consuming majority who will never have the need for these treatments?

Damn that Chateau Lafitte......

*A point I think you acknowledged but I feel has to mentioned with the statement above

S stray
stray Jan 20, 2009 13:11:49
Replying to Locodogz

Locodogz wrote:
I'd guess (and it is a guess) that 60 - 70% of those who drink alcohol do so without creating social problems, ending up in A&E etc, I'd imagine that only a very small % of heroin users can keep it a harmless recreation? Interesting debate as to where cannibis sits between these two poles - I'd image? Given this maths ...
For somebody guessing thats a very low number of non trouble making alcohol users you've plucked out of the air. You're saying that between 30-40% of alcohol users create social problems, thats an astonishingly high guess IMO. Personally, if I thought it was that high I'd go on a full on old school methodist 'ban satans liquid' protest. To then go on to say that you're sure the percentage of Heroin users causing social problems is probably higher, I wouldn't disagreee with that. But I also wouldn't say it without any data to back any of it up. Edit : You really shouldn't say 'given this maths' when you openly admit that you're plucking figures from the air, it aint maths then is it. Sorry, I'm a maths bloke you're unsettling me ;)

As for cannabis users causing social problems ? I strongly disagree there, if there are the percentage would be a hell of a lot lower than the figure you've picked for Alcohol. Well, as we're guessing here *twitch* I'd say its less than 1%. That is of course unless you consider giggling a lot in public and emptying the all night garage of all it's sugar based consumables social problems. :D

However, to talk about the dangers of alcohol I recently saw some figures of life expectancy in Russia. The chances of making it over the age of 65
Women : 79 % Men : 42%. Thats pretty horrifying, the main causes are alcohol and suicide. However the reasons why Russian men drink themselves to death are obviously going to be more to do with the society than the alcohol itself.