close
more_vert

handofdave wrote:
The devotional aspect is always present, so I guess this is what you mean by it not being purely hedonistic- but there is a place for pleasure in most religions. Within bounds, of course, but pleasure itself isn't outlawed, unless you're talking about the most extreme forms, which distrust all pleasure as being seductively destroying.
What I mean is 'pleasure' in religion is always conditional as much as devotional. Pure pleasure isn't subject to anything other than your own sense of it.

Even those happy clappy holly rollin' gospel outings, there will sure be alot of dancing and hugging but it will always be punctuated with 'praise the lord' - ie he's[i/] the one making you so joyous, don't [i]forget it!
Now if it were possible to transcend the god bit in that context something special might be happening, but there the buck stops.

Brings me back to my own belief that humanity would get on better if we all learned to look at ourselves an not for some great scapegoat or disclaimer! 'Would force us to face up to good and the bad within ourselves.

Another topic I know.

x

To be fair, you and I have a different perspective on what 'God' means compared to those who are religious.
When WE (heathen secular humanist sinners that we are) hear the word 'God', it conjures a grabbag of negatives... Theocracy, dogma, persecution, etc.
Most people out there in the world have been raised to accept that there is a God and, to risk a bad joke, don't have a stigmatized view of 'him'. God is a welcome presence (which in my interpretation is the combined energies of a congregation directed towards a shared devotional 'target') and not something to feel weird or suspicious about.

Perhaps it's this familiarity that these folk have with their own traditions and customs that breed our discontent? I'm never surrendering to religion, but I can see why it arose and continues to have such a strong presence in the world.. it's a model of community that the secular world hasn't found a replacement for.
There are various secular attempts to recreate the idea of a congregation without getting trapped in religion, but it often (from what I've seen) merely substitutes the dominant culture's rites for nebulously appropriated customs from other cultures. Which is in some ways even worse than the mainstream! I find ala carte spirituality a little too precious for my sensibilities, but to each their own, finally.. I've no more right trying to evangelize anyone to the righteous superiority of antitheocratic humanism than a bible thumper has any right to evangelize me.