Cultural Christian

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Surely Dawkins is another zealot. A more appealing one than many but a zealot none the less. He has reasoned his way into what he believes to be the route to the answer to existence and wants to impose it on the rest of us.

He writes well, I agree with many of his political conclusions but the idea that human science can unlock the core mysteries of being is to my mind a contradiction in terms. You'd do as well to ask a goldfish to explain to another goldfish the cornflake packet that is just the other side of its bowl.

To my mind anyone who calls an end to the mystery of consciousness in all its myriad forms and layers or wants to direct the quest in one direction only is probably guilty of merely bolstering themselves aginst their own fear of death. Which, after social control, is the prime use of religion. The more frightened people are the more likely they are to fight to the death to defend their death myth. Atheism is not immune to this dynamic either.

As for the bourgeois thing. Well he is an upper middle class academic and walks and talks like one. Who else has the time, resources and access to study, write and broadcast on matters of theology and science in this culture?

Of course by Maoist / Stalinist standards virtually every user of this site would be considered a bourgeois decadent. Judged at least on the nature of many of our declared shared interests. Which puts us in good company - Joyce, Lawrence, Conrad, Becket, Dick to name but five who have taken a kicking from the left. No journeys to inner space are to be tolerated!

Of course this is the same political culture that declares charity to be elitist. No wonder Bucky Fuller's ideas still struggle to get a hearing. Share essential natural resources and amenities (water, power, health care) freely on a collaborative, cross border basis? How bourgeois!

Arguably all theology (including atheism, scientific or otherwise) is a distraction from the stuff of living in the present to the fullest extent.

When someone just comes out and says "there is no answer, it is beyond our knowing, there is no playing chess with death, experiencing all it means to be human for as long as it lasts is the best we can do" that's what earns my respect.

IanB wrote:
Of course by Maoist / Stalinist standards virtually every user of this site would be considered a bourgeois decadent.
Most of the planet wouldn't hesitate for a second to be so generously bestowed with 'bourgeois decadence'. Even the Chinese have embraced it, albeit with a certain heightened amount of central control.

I can't see Dawkins as a zealot. He is very strongly committed to science as the best technique for moving closer to the truth. But I doubt that he would force his answers on us (if he could), I think he would rather try to persuade us to his way of thinking - as he tries in his books etc. But possibly I am a little too charitable here... I don't really know the man. Regarding 'bourgeois', you're right it's the wrong word. What I meant to convey is that Dawkins can come across a bit pompous, aloof and patronising, which might not help his cause.

As for the goldfish explaining the cornflakes, how about trying to explain general relativity or DNA to a caveman? My point is that science can unlock astonishing truths and transform understanding given time. Perhaps if goldfish evolve enough they might one day be able to converse about cornflakes (as humans have evolved to the point where we can now converse about DNA, which would have seemed absurd many millenia ago). Similarly, it may or may not be possible in the long term future for us to 'unlock the core mysteries of being' - but if we can make any progress in understanding anything it will surely be science leading the way, because it's the only testable and trustworthy approach.

Having said all that, I wholeheartedly agree that feeding the spirit by enjoying the present and having fun and just spontaneously experiencing life's beauty is hugely important. I get a lot of fulfillment out of music and hiking in the wild, amongst other things. Also I think that many important human developments have sprung from seemingly irrational thoughts and actions. In some sense, an unconstrained and stimulated imagination is good at generating ideas, and science is good at filtering and developing these ideas. Science has its place, it shouldn't be allowed to rule all our thoughts. Very rational people are often dull as shit.

On an completely unrelated note, Lunar Dunes are great, keep it up!!