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Just wondering what people think about the suggestion that truly massive capstones - such as that at Browne's Hill - may have been 'dug out' of the earth in situ instead of being raised upon orthostats by our crafty ancient friends...

Could a wooden 'A' frame, for arguments sake - have been able to lift such a weight? Would it have been possible from an engineering point of view?

GLADMAN wrote:
Just wondering what people think about the suggestion that truly massive capstones - such as that at Browne's Hill - may have been 'dug out' of the earth in situ instead of being raised upon orthostats by our crafty ancient friends...

Could a wooden 'A' frame, for arguments sake - have been able to lift such a weight? Would it have been possible from an engineering point of view?

Do you mean the support stones being placed under them first Gladman then the earth from all around then moved? That's quite a common belief I think isn't it for other such monuments.

GLADMAN wrote:
Just wondering what people think about the suggestion that truly massive capstones - such as that at Browne's Hill - may have been 'dug out' of the earth in situ instead of being raised upon orthostats by our crafty ancient friends...

Could a wooden 'A' frame, for arguments sake - have been able to lift such a weight? Would it have been possible from an engineering point of view?

I suppose it would be easier to dig around a 150 ton capstone rather than try to move it far. These people had plenty of experience with working with heavy stone so I guess they were more than capable of constructing something to support the stone while they got the other stones in place.

The Labby Rock in Sligo is another portal tomb where the stone may have been in situ and worked around.

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/1037/carrickglass.html

The capstone at Lligwy on Anglesey is set very low to the ground on quite squat orthostats, a pit was dug beneath the capstone to increase the head room to 2m or more. Our visit:-

http://www.megalithics.com/wales/lligwy/lligmain.htm

This is sort of an odd halfway house between the suggested capstone dug out and supported in situ, and the standard built-on-the-old-ground-surface chamber. Although the interior space is now silted up to only around 1m tall, it does feel a little like being inside a WW2 bunker with vision slits at head height (try our VR panorama of the interior).

We would love to know if the capstone was set this way by design or expediency (me back's gone Dai, this'll have to do), at 1m thick and 5m square it would certainly have been a handful.

Maybe one to visit when we finally get that time machine we've been after.

GLADMAN wrote:
........... Would it have been possible from an engineering point of view?
Gladders, me old mucker,

As a design engineer, viewing it from a purely engineering point of view, yes it would be possible. Obviously, without them getting stress engineers in to do the calculations necessary, it would be a case of trial and error at first. Either that, or over-engineer it to make it failsafe, which is very possible.

However, from a practical point of view, I have to wonder how often the circumstances would arise to make anyone experienced in it, i.e. getting it right the next time after a failed attempt, when there probably wouldn't be that many opportunities to attempt it.

It's a good theory that might have worked in the past. It'd be good if archaeology could prove it had been done. Why doubt that it could be achieved, after all you just have to look at the trilithons at Stonehenge to realize what massive engineering problems they could overcome.

All the best,
TE.

A site I have yet to visit, but this one might be a candidate:

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/8180/carn_llechart_burial_chamber.html