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jonmor wrote:
Thanks ttj. Without understanding the strengths and weaknesses of alternative arguments, it seems to me unlikely that a contribution to the consultation would have much impact.

Julian emphasises the importance of the site: The site may be important to archaeologists and the WHS is logged as having outstanding universal value by UNESCO. However, this is not quite the same as proving importance. To show importance, one would need to show that the value is high and that the value will be adversely affected by change. In order to do that, one would need to show what the value is (to humanity): UNESCO's structure singles out sites with a high relative value (to humanity), but it does not put a value (valuation) to those sites.

A question that archaeologists seem to me to be reluctant to tackle is why archaeological remains have value to humanity. Once the potential(s) for value are known, they can usually be defined using quantifiable methods. If value is not defined using a quantifiable method, you will have a lot of difficulty countering the additional capital, user and environmental costs of doing something else.

I hope that the above is not too cryptic. I've possible spent too much time looking at methods of assessing environmental value and writing about it for engineering audiences. If the language is a bit obtuse, let me know. Though it may not appear to be so, the above is intended to be helpful.

Thank you for taking the trouble to write that - I think it deserves an answer but don't expect an academic argument. I am not an archaeologist, nor did I ever wish to be one. So my response has to be purely an emotional one, though I would be far better equipped to make it if we were talking about Avebury.

You say to prove the importance of somewhere like the Stonehenge WHS we would need to demonstrate its value to humanity. Well we can certainly demonstrate its value to the National Trust and English Heritage - it must be their biggest earner. Even more so if you take the fleeting view of it away by sticking the traffic underground using the least expensive option. But this is where the emotion comes in - I personally do not like new roads, underground or overground. I was on the side of Swampy all those years ago when stuck himself up a tree to protest against the Newbury by-pass (having been on the Newbury by-pass recently, I can confirm it is hellish).

"A question that archaeologists seem to me to be reluctant to tackle is why archaeological remains have value to humanity." That seems to fly in the face of everything this web-site is about. Can we not have a Blakean view of our world, investigating and protecting 'the past' without putting 'value' on it. The past is our compass in many ways; the Neolithic past is our great mystery - so near and yet so far.

Thanks for the non-confrontational chat ttj.

There's a view in some quarters that the future of the environment is important. If you agree with that view, then a generally agreed methodology for development is what's known as "Sustainable Development" (defined in the simplest terms by Brundtland and so on, but later significantly modified by Agenda 21, the Rio Declaration and so on). With Sustainable Development comes a gradual abandonment of those ways and parts of the past that are detrimental to the continued existence of our society.

If you agree with that viewpoint, then it is not unreasonable to ask how much value (or otherwise) this or that has to both us and to future generations. Value can then be compared against the options to see which option (for development) generates the most benefit. A consultation is then used to help identify issues that may not have been considered.

Here's a paper from Birmingham University following a workshop about the cultural "value" versus the "economic" value of archaeological sites (it doesn't suggest the answers, but does cover the problem of applying economic values to heritage):

"Economics lacks a capacity to understand and evaluate the heritage as a cultural phenomenon. At the same time, the cultural approach to heritage lacks a language in which to express the values the heritage holds. By working together such a language can be developed to the mutual benefit of both: for economists, to gain an insight into a phenomenon effectively opaque to them; for students of heritage studies, to communicate effectively the nature of the phenomenon we struggle to describe."

http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Documents/college-artslaw/iiich/carman-AHRC-cultural-value-project.pdf