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Disgwylfa Fawr

Canoes? You what?

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GLADMAN G
GLADMAN Nov 27, 2012 20:13:44
Replying to thesweetcheat

thesweetcheat wrote:
Do you think their presence on the Pulumon massif is significant? After all, both Hafren and Wye have their sources there and both must surely have been viewed as enormously important rivers (for food, water, transport, maybe territorial boundaries) during the BA.
That's the leading question SC. As you well know the incidence of large summit cairns in Wales is not exactly rare.... some are most probably not of ancient origin, some 50/50, some probably are and some most definitely are (those containing cists, yielding RC dates etc). The things that have struck me about Pumlumon over the past couple of years especially are:

1) the sheer number of cairns - as I've mentioned they occur upon virtually every top
2) the consistently large size of the cairns - if not with regards height, then volume, the footprint
3) the fact that, Pen Pumlumon-Fawr excepted, Pumlumon must surely be the least frequented significant upland area in Wales.... and, as I recall, was arguably even less so 10... 20 years ago. The point here being the unlikelihood of walkers having had measurable impact in terms of cairn building.

So what? Well, as you mentioned, three major rivers rise upon the main ridge... not only the Rheidol, but two of the UK's most significant in the Wye and Severn, the latter two rising either side of Pen Pumlumon-Arwystli.... which happens to have been given a trio of large cairns to Pen Pumlumon-Fawr's two (although Coflein does cite a further one on the latter which I didn't find particularly convincing). Coincidence, perhaps. Maybe, but if so the question remains, why here, of all places?

Then, upon a minor outlying peak above the Rheidol, opposite a monster cairn on Y Garn and overlooking two cairn circles below, excavators unearthed these 'dugouts', certified 'ancient' within a very large cairn upon Disgwylfa Fawr. As mentioned I don't think the lengths are significant since if these were canoes, or meant to represent canoes, they obviously weren't meant to go on any literal water bourne journey. Not up here..... Clearly they were symbolic

If not 'trimmed' canoes... but coffins... why no lid?. And again, why something so unusual here. What is so 'different' about Pumlumon to inspire such difference? My assumption would be the people knew this area was the source of numerous rivers.... hey, the mother of rivers.. and couldn't think of a better place to intern their dead. If these were 'canoes' that would add an extra facet to that, would that not? Travelling down the river from its source to a new life. Or something like that.

T thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat Nov 27, 2012 20:46:04
Replying to GLADMAN

I reckon the importance of waterways (especially navigable ones) at that time can't be underestimated. They were by far the quickest way to travel any distance before roads. Both Wye and Severn cover large areas of what is now Wales, providing the nearest thing to a highway across the country. And their sources must have been known, Pumlumon is remote to our minds, but following the rivers upstream was hardly like trying to reach the source of the Nile or something. Besides which, a major river is a source of food and water, easy to obtain and seemingly inexhaustible.

As to what the "canoes" represents, who knows, particularly as that seems an archaic form of water craft for the BA (didn't they have coracles of some sort by then?). It's so difficult to get hold of these things, perhaps the people buried were fishers or even descendants of seafaring settlers, but it's only speculation (fun though).

One thing I do bet is that there's a whole load more to be discovered under all that peat and bog up in those mountains though.