Stonehenge 181
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Stonehenge

Stonehenge Q and R stones sunrise orientation

tiompan T
tiompan Nov 11, 2014 18:17:13
Replying to Sanctuary

Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
nigelswift wrote:
"Okay Nigel, please enlighten us by revealing how many EXACTLY of the 1000's of dowsers out there have shown this 'lack of ability'"

Normally an exact number would be hard to come up with, but not in this case as I know of exactly none who have shown that ability to others (based on my personal observation and Googling. Under controlled conditions, that is.) I'm prepared to bet my caravan against your house that that's the EXACT number you know too!

Being committed and getting off your arse every weekend doesn't make throwing knucklebones an effective form of futurology or dowsing a real phenomenon.

"Beats sitting in your armchair or looking at a computer screen and googling away to gain your information from like many do!"

If that's a dig at me so be it but you should know I've been interested in dowsing for many, many years since before Bill Gates had a pot to piss in and I do know a bit about it! As does George. Why demonise us (which is what's coming across loud and clear)? Don't you think we'd RATHER it was proved to be a real phenomenon? You'd have to be bonkers not to wish it was.

No dig directly at you personally intended Nigel I can assure you but plenty at those who at times quote unrealistic claims in an attempt to try and prove a point.
Just sticking to my 1,000's of dowsers out there, lets, just for arguments sake, say there are 5,000. I doubt very much that more than 50 dowsers have been 'lab tested' to prove their apparent claims, or more likely, asked to prove something dreamt up by their examiners.
Would you seriously consider that the 'failings' of those 50 dowsers (1%) are truly representative of those other 4,950 who have not been tested? It would only take 1 out of those 4,950 to pass the tests asked of him to prove that dowsing does work, but not for everyone! That is your weakness, you make no allowance for the possibility that it may just work!
Well if it's not Nigel that leaves me .

What are the unrealistic claims from the sceptical viewpoint ,and what are the quotes ?

The unrealistic claims are from the dowsers .
Do you actaully believe that dowsers are capable of finding "stuff" and what makes you believe it ?
There is no reason to believe that it does work ,when given the opportunity under test conditions , they never do better than expected by chance.
Maybe spoon bending , psychokinesis , table turning ,communicating with the dead , levitation ,reading tea leaves etc works , but I wouldn't bet on it . Everyone , when tested by the non gullible fails .
Just get one dowser to find the hidden pot of ring pulls and we'll be on the road to believing .

The unrealistic claim is that dowsers can't do what they say they can when you are basing that on probably much less that 1% of them. You're one for your facts ,figures and statistics George, does that seem realistic to you?

I'm not claiming to believe anything, just being rather sceptical about the claims as there have been nowhere near enough test cases to prove your point.

Can you tell me how many there have been please without fudging?

Of course it's not unrealistic . When tested they never do better than expected by chance . What stats do have to show the efficacy ? None .You said yourseself that you didn't know anything about the subject ,so how do you know what tetst have carried out ?
What do mean without fudging ?
The only defence you have is to suggest "well you never know ,just because they all fail doesn't mean that it's not possible " That's the same argumnet for all the wacko stuff e.g. the ones I had listed previously and you can add crop circles and aliens .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOsCnX-TKIY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqoYrSd94kA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQVPkrIipV0
Not a real example but fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0YM8J1Sqng
We could go on .
These are willing dowsers with belief in their abilities ,usually they avoid being tested despite continuing to make outlandish claims .

S Sanctuary
Sanctuary Nov 11, 2014 18:31:54
Replying to tiompan

tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
tiompan wrote:
Sanctuary wrote:
[quote="nigelswift"]"Okay Nigel, please enlighten us by revealing how many EXACTLY of the 1000's of dowsers out there have shown this 'lack of ability'"

Normally an exact number would be hard to come up with, but not in this case as I know of exactly none who have shown that ability to others (based on my personal observation and Googling. Under controlled conditions, that is.) I'm prepared to bet my caravan against your house that that's the EXACT number you know too!

Being committed and getting off your arse every weekend doesn't make throwing knucklebones an effective form of futurology or dowsing a real phenomenon.

"Beats sitting in your armchair or looking at a computer screen and googling away to gain your information from like many do!"

If that's a dig at me so be it but you should know I've been interested in dowsing for many, many years since before Bill Gates had a pot to piss in and I do know a bit about it! As does George. Why demonise us (which is what's coming across loud and clear)? Don't you think we'd RATHER it was proved to be a real phenomenon? You'd have to be bonkers not to wish it was.

No dig directly at you personally intended Nigel I can assure you but plenty at those who at times quote unrealistic claims in an attempt to try and prove a point.
Just sticking to my 1,000's of dowsers out there, lets, just for arguments sake, say there are 5,000. I doubt very much that more than 50 dowsers have been 'lab tested' to prove their apparent claims, or more likely, asked to prove something dreamt up by their examiners.
Would you seriously consider that the 'failings' of those 50 dowsers (1%) are truly representative of those other 4,950 who have not been tested? It would only take 1 out of those 4,950 to pass the tests asked of him to prove that dowsing does work, but not for everyone! That is your weakness, you make no allowance for the possibility that it may just work!
Well if it's not Nigel that leaves me .

What are the unrealistic claims from the sceptical viewpoint ,and what are the quotes ?

The unrealistic claims are from the dowsers .
Do you actaully believe that dowsers are capable of finding "stuff" and what makes you believe it ?
There is no reason to believe that it does work ,when given the opportunity under test conditions , they never do better than expected by chance.
Maybe spoon bending , psychokinesis , table turning ,communicating with the dead , levitation ,reading tea leaves etc works , but I wouldn't bet on it . Everyone , when tested by the non gullible fails .
Just get one dowser to find the hidden pot of ring pulls and we'll be on the road to believing .

The unrealistic claim is that dowsers can't do what they say they can when you are basing that on probably much less that 1% of them. You're one for your facts ,figures and statistics George, does that seem realistic to you?

I'm not claiming to believe anything, just being rather sceptical about the claims as there have been nowhere near enough test cases to prove your point.

Can you tell me how many there have been please without fudging?

What do mean without fudging ?

Just tell me straight how many dowsers have been tested under lab conditions compared to all the 1,000's out there without all the vid clips thrown in please. If you don't know then just say so.

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