While I applaud the sentiments you express - haven't we learned that confrontation doesn't get us anywhere? If we want them to listen shouldn't we try to establish a platform before exchanging insults? The last thing we need is to drive influential people into a corner. Once there - their views harden to save face. We have to find a way to allow them to go our way without having to admit they have got it wrong and done nothing useful for decades. Machiavelli would convince them that Nigel's concept was really their own.