Re: Midwinter, or midsummer? | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

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Midwinter, or midsummer?

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follow that cow Jun 23, 2005 21:59:56

Replying to The Eternal

FW says >>May Day? Lammas/Lugnassa. There's a lot of summer festivals.

We have Easter in the spring & harvest festivals in Autumn.

Some of these may not be that important now, but they were more so when I was a kid.<<

Yes, I'm aware of those, but as I said, there are no great universal summer (solstice) festivals.
Universal, as in the way that the Christmas/New Year celebrations are universal.
You say there are lots FW, but you didn't mention any ;-)

The notion of a Midsummer solstice festival only took hold when those crazy modern druids, wearing their Mum's best linen bed sheets, got it all wrong at the beginning of last century and started to worship at Stonehenge back to front!

MIDWINTER (solstice) festivals are/were and always will be the primary celebration throughout the west/Europe, even under the present Christian context; the midwinter festival is firmly ingrained in the western psyche as the prominent event in our annual calendar.
And so it would have been with our ancestors.

As to whether Stonehenge was primarily built as a great astronomical predictor and observatory, this is very unlikely. Certainly, it was built following the conventions of the age and that involved various solar, lunar and compass alignments, that's for sure, as are modern churches, but most laymen of the time would have been unaware of its astronomical capabilities. Ask your average Joe in the street what are the conventions regarding the compass points of a modern church and I'm sure 99% won't have a clue! As it is now, so it was then.

When our ancestors wanted to predict and measure the seasons they just needed to look around, berries, birds, flowering plants etc' these were their calendars, and if they wanted to be exact, a couple of sticks in the ground would suffice. They really did not need to go the bother of lugging 50 tons sarcen stones over Salisbury Plain.

Whatever Stonehenge may or may not be, one thing is for sure it was an expression of power.
Great power. It was intended as a statement. "Look at us! Aren't we something?"

And we are still looking, with wonder and in awe.

The Eternal Jun 23, 2005 22:52:12

Replying to follow that cow

Indeed we are still looking with wonder and awe. I only wish the Foamhenge monument could be seen by more people. How many times have we all overheard people saying how they didn't expect the real Stonehenge to be so small? Of course it is, it's a ruin.

John North, in his book "Stonehenge - Neolithic Man and the Cosmos" puts forward a case for astronomical observations from Stonehenge. There are so many stones in every view from every possible angle, that you can't possibly fail to find alignments. Think of the views from outside Foamhenge looking in - you could hardly see through it. His other theories of star alignments in smaller hill figures and stone alignments could be plausible, in my view.

What one expert did say on the Foamhenge programme was that the constellations weren't in the same place as in the Bronze Age, but still existed. Wrong! The constellations were different shapes then. The stars move independently of any perceived constellation from Earth. The constellations we see today didn't exist in the BA. The "Star Signs" are bullshit.

The one impression I was left with from the Foamhenge programme was how, when the midwinter sunset was simulated, from the Avenue approach, the sun seemed to shine from the centre of the circle. The circle seemed to glow with power. Whether this happened in reality is open to debate. If it looked the same back then, well is it any wonder they concentrated on the midwinter sunset.

Cheers,

FourWinds Jun 23, 2005 23:21:32

Replying to follow that cow

>> MIDWINTER (solstice) festivals are/were and always will be the primary celebration throughout the
>> west/Europe, even under the present Christian context; the midwinter festival is firmly ingrained in the
>> western psyche as the prominent event in our annual calendar.
>> And so it would have been with our ancestors.

I have to disagree. Harvest festival was always the big one before the supermarket arrived. That's when people recieved their presents: presents of food for the following year.

FourWinds Jun 23, 2005 23:38:16

Replying to follow that cow

>> Ask your average Joe in the street what are the conventions regarding the compass points of a modern
>> church and I'm sure 99% won't have a clue! As it is now, so it was then.

Ask any Muslim why he faces the way he does when he prays and he WILL tell you. As it is now, so it was then.

Your statement doesn't work does it? :-)

FourWinds Jun 23, 2005 23:53:24

Replying to follow that cow

Here's an interesting one. Many early churches in Ireland and the UK (and presumably throughout Europe too) do not align due east, but align to the sunrise on the Day of the saint they are dedicated to. Accident? Doubt it.

FourWinds Jun 25, 2005 10:02:14

Replying to follow that cow

How about the feast day of St John the Baptist? June 24th? This is supposed to be the day that Christ way baptised, I think. The day he was purified etc.

http://www.millstreet.ie/history/stjohnswell.htm