despite all the amputations

Cumbria 41

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fitzcoraldo Mar 24, 2006 16:07:31

All this talk of Shap has set me off thinking again. So here's one.
What is it with the Cumbrians banging walls through their monuments? I know it happens elsewhere but the Cumbrians seem to be particular good at this form of mutilation.
Here's a few examples
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/38303 Iron Hill
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/37001 Wilson Scar
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/6460 Leacet Hill
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/35645 Long Meg
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/30180 Hird Wood
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/41423 Studfold gate
What d'ya reckon to the liminal aspect of these monuments with repect to prehistoric boundaries and their survival into the present day? On my local moors it's barrows that tend to run along boundaries other areas employ standing stones to perform a similar function.
Or
Is this a chicken and an egg thing that may only go back as far as the acts of enclosure. Sort of - "well we're gonna enclose the land, so we'll use some prominent landmarks....see all them mounds running along that ridge? everything to the south of them belongs to me"
But
The barrows tend to follow ridges
Whereas
The Cumbrian circles aren't so clear cut and occur in varying geographical locations
So
Is there a connection between the barrow/boundaries and the circle/boundaries?
I used to be quite sure about the prehistoric boundary thing but now I ain't so sure...whatcha reckon?

An interesting aside
I guess it's also worth mentioning the wonderful site of Millin Bay recently highlighted by FW, where the monument was constructed over the top of the wall. http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/23406

confitzed?.....I am

BigSweetie Mar 24, 2006 16:50:59

Replying to fitzcoraldo

> Is this a chicken and an egg thing that may only go back as far as the acts of enclosure.
> Sort of - "well we're gonna enclose the land, so we'll use some prominent landmarks....see
> all them mounds running along that ridge? everything to the south of them belongs to me"

two examples I can think of up here:

Hill of Drimmie stone circle http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/44138 a boundary runs straight through it (for the best view of it look at the Streetmap)

Clach Ossian http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/3800 in this case it was used as a prominent landmark for 18th century road-building. When the English army were putting down roads through the Highlands after Culloden, the road through the Sma' Glen used Clach Ossian as their "aiming point" from the bottom of the glen. They obviously weren't too clever because they kept aiming for the stone until they got right up to it, then thought "oh bugger" and had to lever it out the way (revealing a cist underneath)

Cheers
Andy

rocknicker Mar 24, 2006 17:39:59

Replying to fitzcoraldo

I reckon it's all just coincidence (literally!) and that the ignorant barstools who were planning roads/railways etc just ignored them.

i.e. "railroading"

wideford Mar 24, 2006 17:44:51

Replying to fitzcoraldo

Staith dykes, picky dykes, and their ilk are prehistoric, and IIRC a few of those run into monuments - unfortunately many are now submerged for most, and in some cases all, of their length by several feet of peat and such.

Rockrich Mar 24, 2006 18:43:47

Replying to fitzcoraldo

Fitz, to the wall builder, could chopping these circles in 'arf be a way of desecrating their druidicalousness ?......kinda "I can't be arsed movin' these stones you good for nowt druid, but this wall will put an end to all your goat sacrificing shenanigans, now get to church, or be forever damned" ......... sorta fing!

Georges point about RA is a goodun, down here a number of humungous erratics with RA on form part of boundary walls, heres a few I can think of:

http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/27635 Skyreholme
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/41437 Rivock
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/post/44174 Guisecliff

I'd go for these CnR'd rocks just being prominent bits on the landscape to stick your wall on, but who knows.

The Eternal Mar 24, 2006 20:48:05

Replying to fitzcoraldo

Greetings Fitz,
I can understand incorporating stones from circles into stone walls, making the job easier, but I find it hard to understand why a landowner would put a wall through a stone circle, instead of making use of the stones. To leave them untouched and unbroken is unusual, but a blessing.
Cheers,
TE.