Silbury Hill forum 180 room
Image by Jane
close

Some lay reactions to Update 11 http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511

In the first half of the tunnel the voiding is said to be no more than 0.5 metres above Atkinson’s steel support arches. However, in two sections this voiding is said to be directly associated with the visible surface slumping uphill from the entrance, which is clearly a lot more than 0.5 metres higher, suggesting (to me at least) that the height of the voiding is only a small part of the story and that the damage and loss of integrity extends in a column above it right to the surface. Hardly a unique observation but it has further significance, see later.

Further along the tunnel and within the central chamber there is a very large amount of fallen material and above it “larger” voids and a “significant collapse zone”. How big? It matters, and the public is entitled to know. In fact it’s just about the crux of what the lay public DO want to know about their hill, urgently. So why not tell them? An official estimate or even an official guess would do.

One thing that makes me think “big” might mean “very big” is that I’ve heard, rightly or wrongly, that the Atkinson rings far in (of which no account or photographs have been provided) are badly distorted. To me, that suggests massive forces. Confirmation that I have been misinformed would be very helpful.

Whatever the answer to that is, an additional official opinion is owed, arising from the fact that the 0.5 metre voids have caused surface disruption far above them. Is there, like there is with the 0.5 metre voids, also a column of damage and loss of integrity extending above these “larger” voids, and if so for how far?

“There is no evidence of water cascading through the hill”. Well, not sure anyone ever thought there was (although actually, it might be better news if there was). Instead, “it is more a change of the overall saturation state of the whole mass of chalk”. This sounds worrying, to a lay person anyway. Is this a regular occurrence or unique? If the latter, is there a chance that prolonged saturation of chalk and clay causes irreversible chemical and mechanical changes? And if the latter, we still haven’t heard precisely where this water is thought to have come from and when. There have been tunnels in Silbury for 230 years and worse rainfall in that time. Is the structural integrity of the hill in August 2007 somehow more precarious and the situation more urgent than it has been previously? If so, why? The account so far provided simply doesn’t answer these perfectly natural questions.

I wonder if the whole hill has not settled slightly on the outside over the past 40 years anyway. It could be a foot shorter, and I doubt anyone would have noticed. The fact that they say the word 'chamber' a lot now is worrying. That implies a larger area than I thought was dug out in 68-69, which I thought was just a tunnel, like a subterranean archaeologist's trench, rather than an expanding cave, which is what it sounds like now.

It really beggars belief that Atkinson was allowed to scar the hill, leave it in disrepair which has further damaged it, and did not even pay his way by publishing anything, and yet is still held up as one of EH's heroes.

Says a lot about EH though.

nigelswift wrote:
...In the first half of the tunnel the voiding is said to be no more than 0.5 metres above Atkinson’s steel support arches...
I thought 0.5m was the 'overbreak', the waterlogged crumbly material which 0.5m above would become solid roof again. Not that they should go breaking it off!

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Silbury_Hill_web_update_11.pdf

nigelswift wrote:
...One thing that makes me think “big” might mean “very big” is that I’ve heard, rightly or wrongly, that the Atkinson rings far in (of which no account or photographs have been provided) are badly distorted. To me, that suggests massive forces. Confirmation that I have been misinformed would be very helpful...
I can confirm from my own phone call to EH that mention was made of the Atkinson supports being distorted under the pressures - they were going to have to add their own safety measures as they could no longer rely on these to protect those working on the project.


http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/forum/?thread=41033&message=530317

No update 12 yet?

If the horizontal and vertical shafts meet up there should be a hell of an updraught, which will help to ventilate and dry the hill out.

Silbury Hill Week 12 - ENGINEERING UPDATE now available at http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511

English Heritage's Week 13 Update is now available here at http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511

nigelswift wrote:
,
“There is no evidence of water cascading through the hill”. Well, not sure anyone ever thought there was (although actually, it might be better news if there was). Instead, “it is more a change of the overall saturation state of the whole mass of chalk”. This sounds worrying, to a lay person anyway. Is this a regular occurrence or unique? If the latter, is there a chance that prolonged saturation of chalk and clay causes irreversible chemical and mechanical changes? And if the latter, we still haven’t heard precisely where this water is thought to have come from and when. There have been tunnels in Silbury for 230 years and worse rainfall in that time. Is the structural integrity of the hill in August 2007 somehow more precarious and the situation more urgent than it has been previously? If so, why? The account so far provided simply doesn’t answer these perfectly natural questions.
That’s interesting, when I was wandering round Silbury a week or so ago just after the flooding, first thing I noticed was how dry the ground was. Apparently 3 days before the water had stood over a metre round the mound., it struck me though at the time that any water entering the mound would have come from the top as the Atkinson tunnel is much higher than the moated area, so are any of the the turves that are being examined from this latest EH update ....
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/q7.pdf
contaminated as well? It also must surely have followed that the new chalk infill lying in the low ground of the compound also would have been contaminated with seed and spore from the floodwaters?

No updates on the English Heritage Silbury Hill Update page this week. Hear tell that the whole site has fallen silent and the visitor centre is no longer open. Wonder what's going on?

Update 16 is now up.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Update_16.pdf

Oops! Another void......or is it a crater?

It was clear upon further inspection that material had subsided from beneath this southern edge of the polystyrene infill, and that an area of failed chalk which was left in-situ in 2001 has subsequently collapsed since that date. As a result, a void has been created on the summit, see figure 2. The current volume of this void has been calculated to be in the order of 78m3.
Since that date? Sometime in the last six years? Care to be more precise?
There was no mention of this in Update 11 and subsequent Updates when the plug was being investigated. Wouldn't have something to do with yon digger, would it?

the current void is the result of the disturbances caused by the discovery of the large central void which was created by the progressive collapse of the Merewether and Atkinson tunnels since they were abandoned.
A void caused by a discovery? To me, this is one of two things:

Poor editing / use of English

or

A knock-on effect bought about by the recent discovery of the unfilled large central void (left by Atkinson/Merewether) by English Heritage's current conservation programme, which makes me wonder how stable the Poor Bloody Hill is, and how much unnecessary extra damage is being inflicted upon it. Anyone for grouting?

Peace

Pilgrim

X

PS: What exactly is "failed chalk", and how does it come about?

Update 17 has arrived........

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Silbury_Hill_web_update_17.pdf

Update 18 is out http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511

Looks like English Heritage have come to their senses over the time capsule idea as this will now, "...be placed in the Alexander Keiller Museum in Avebury alongside the contents of Dean Merewether's time capsule and that of Richard Atkinson..."

By the end of tomorrow, with Xmas looming, we'll have had eight weeks during which there have been just a hundred words released about the structural work and another hundred about the archaeology.

That's OK though, what do I expect for the expenditure of a million pounds of public funds?

How dare I moan. There IS no news and there HAS been no further major damage.

Has there?

Tonight on Newsnight at 11:30 on BBC 2 and on the Newsnight website.

See also http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/7215842.stm

In the first half of the tunnel the voiding is said to be no more than 0.5 metres above Atkinson’s steel support arches. However, in two sections this voiding is said to be directly associated with the visible surface slumping uphill from the entrance, which is clearly a lot more than 0.5 metres higher, suggesting (to me at least) that the height of the voiding is only a small part of the story and that the damage and loss of integrity extends in a column above it right to the surface...
Looks like you were right there Nigel - take a look at English Heritage's latest Silbury Hill update (Update 31) and the gash above the Atkinson/BBC tunnel here - http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.17511. Also (on the same page) the present size of the infill on the top of the monument (compared to earlier photographs of the collapse).

The last report? bruised and battered and looking slightly the worse for wear Silbury is repaired.....
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/upload/pdf/Silbury_Hill_web_update_32.pdf

Coincidentally reading a plant flora last night; when EH come to scatter some seeds around to cover those bald patches they should add some Squinancywort (Asperula cynanchica)....
In 1574 a Flemish botanist climbed this 'acclivem cretaceam et arridam montem arte militari aggestum' (steep chalky dry hill raised by military art), he climbed Silbury Hill and found a plant blossoming in July which seemed to have been the above plant, though he called it Anglica Saxifraga - the first record for Britain.... expect Rhiannon would be interested by that non news ;)

Report from the local paper

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/display.var.2248968.0.work_to_stabilise_silbury_hill_completed.php