>(could this be be a case of indirect discrimination?)
No, the NT bye laws say no camping and a court case in 2002
allowed the NT the right to stop anyone camping within the WHS, thanks to one Mr Dobney who failed to turn up in the county court to challenge the case.

>We discovered at our meeting on 3/11/03 that this
agreement had been denied, consequently we have offered
ourselves to be prosecuted. It is hoped that will lead to
precedents being set so that we can all go on to celebrate
at this special site.

ROFLMAO!
If you get arrested for breach of the peace what sort of precedent do you image a court would give you?
As it not even a pagan festival on wednesday you cannot claim any sort of pagan persection.
If you loose the case (very likely) a court could decree that the NT
must evict everyone from the carpark every evening.
Your actions could make it a whole lot worst.

Hi Mik, Emma, have done as requested and posted this in various places.
Have put a link to here for anyone who wants to reply.

And Good Luck!

Ok here goes.

You may find you can make people sit up and listen to you if you know the laws that govern the ritual side of things.

1. On 2 October 1998 the European Convention on Human Rights will be incorporated into National Law under the Human Rights Act, which received Royal assent on 9 November. The Convention enshrines the right to freedom of association and peaceful assembly, and freedom from religious discrimination (hitherto only outlawed in British law in Northern Ireland). Article 18 states: 'Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance'. The Act makes it unlawful for any public authority to act in a way which is incompatible with the Convention, and legal proceedings may be brought if a person, company or organisation suffers as a result of an authority's unlawful act.

2. Freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

3. Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and to freedom of association with others, including the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

4. No restrictions shall be placed on the exercise of these rights other than such as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others. This Article shall not prevent the imposition of lawful restrictions on the exercise of these rights by members of the armed forces, of the police or of the administration of the State

5. Partly in response to these changes to the law the Government has commissioned Derby University's Religious Resource and Research Centre to undertake a study of religious discrimination in the UK, and the final report is due to be presented to the Home Office this month. The interim report of January 2000 specifically cited Pagans as an example of a minority religious group affected by such discrimination.

As you can see they cannot stop us from being Pagans at Avebury, so they are trying the next best thing, stopping us from being able to remain there at the times we need to be there, however the carpark is within the boundries of the religious site as defined by the NT and as paganism historically would have celibrated feasts for days you could claim that the campsite is a continuation of the feasting ritual (we do drink a lot of mead and eat there).
My interpretation of this is that if the national trust give us permission to camp solely for the period of our Pagan Festivals and they are the sole owners of this land (the car park), then the local bylaws would be seen as discriminatory as our camping there does not effect the interests of national security or public safety, or the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

As you can see from item 5 the governments own research has given Paganism the heading of "Religion" so we do not have to prove that we are.

I will continue to research this for more information to assist you.

TIG

Is that you Mik ?
Mik from Avebury ??
The person who helped me and my little'un on Cabbage Sunday ??

Good luck in whatever you do mate,thanks for your help,i owe you a drink.
michele

Hi Mik, Emma and all.

I'm coming into this thread a bit late but have been discussing this situation on some other message boards.

Some here have raised the point that as a recognised religion under EU law we have a right to peacefully carry out our practices. These include ceremonies at dawn and midnight. Since no public transport to and from Avebury exists between those times these restrictions on car/vehicle parking completely bar us form persuing our spiritual path at our largest working temple!

NT have always in the past been flexible about this over pagan festival weekends and it appears from what I hear that the driving force behind this parking ban is not the NT but the local Parish Council. This is by definition linked to the local Christian church, so who is pushing for this? Is there a Fundie Christian biggot or two sitting on the Parish Council?

I agree that this ban might be needed at 'normal' times to prevent large numbers of travellers and nomadic people attempting to set up semi-permanent camps in the car park. However at pagan festival times it should be waved.

The tourist car park is outside the boundaries of the earthworks on the edge of the village and people who camp there as a rule would not in any way disturb the villagers, which has been suggested as an excuse for this ban. We do not hold raves or use loud amplified loud music in the car park. At least only on one occasion in the last couple of years can I remember anyone doing so, they were not regular attendees and even then shut the music off fairly early. Solstice two years ago a massively loud party was held in the village by a resident which went on till near dawn!

Many Blessings.
John Pullin, (Oriondruid).

Hi All,

This unfortunately wont help much with the case, but it is interesting that the Parish Council have already had a mention in the World Pagan News regarding their solutions to traffic problems at Avebury - maybe they can help?

http://paganinstitute.org/e-world_pagan_news.html

Regards

Kate

x

In all this do we not need a third protagonist to defend the cause of the stones themselves. Surely they have a right to existence free from all our own personal needs to have a spiritual experience. A defence lawyer would surely argue that they had been there for a few thousand years, erected by people who had their own belief system and that the stones belong within their own time frame. Stonehenge has to all intents and purposes been sacrificed in the name of tourist attraction/disney theme image, many of us do not want Avebury to go the same route. Callanish last night was treated to a sons et lumiere effect! In the end nothing belongs to anyone we are all just passing through. I do not quarrel with your need to have a belief system, only with the hijacking/adopting of a very special imposing circle that has stood its ground quietly for a few thousand years. x

How long have you been using the car park without prosecution?

Who owns the car park?

Mik,
This is the sort of problems with trying to establish fixed dates for parking here.
I noticed the BDO have posted this
>Caer Abiri Gorsedd and dates
------------------------------------------
Greywolf proposed that the BDO should host gatherings of the Gorsedd of Bards of Caer Abiri at Avebury on the nearest Saturday to the four festivals of Candlemas, May Day, Lammas and Hallowe'en by the old Julian calendar. The provisional dates are as follows: -

Hallowe'en 2003 November 8th
Candlemas 2004 February 7th
May Day 2004 May 9th
Lammas 2004 August 7th
----------------------------
http://www.awenlist.org/index.php

which is a week After the tradtional dates for these festivals.
PeteG

There doesn't seem to be much thought given to exactly WHY the action has been taken, other than some de-trollied suggestions of "dark forces". Rather than making unsustainable accusations of persecution, maybe it would be better to get to grips with why Avebury Parish Council, in particular, want the carpark closed at night, and do something to help them. Eg you admit to a lot of mead drinking. I wonder if some of the local residents resent noise in the early hours?

I think it can be demonstrated that your claim to have had your religious freedom violated is unsustainable, whereas they might have a case for claiming you've eroded their freedom to quiet enjoyment of their homes. Big events at 3 am normally need planning permission, for that very reason, and it's usually refused for the same reason. A bit less righteous indignation and paranoia and a bit more realism might get you further. Ask not what Avebury can do for you but what you can do for Avebury....