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Wyrd Brother W
Wyrd Brother Aug 9, 2004 06:04:32
Replying to TomBo

Don't forget that Odin absorbed an earlier Germanic 'chief god' called the Sky Father who was probably a light god. Before this Odin was a shaman / storm / Mercurial type god. He then mixes these attributes. Later perhaps his son comes to represent the light aspects he's absorbed.

Loki may well be based on a biased version of Lugh as the Germans where once the slaves of some Celtic tribes, so their gods may have been seen as particularly malign. And this might also explain the association between Loki and Odin.

But I have problems in associating Balder the Beautiful, god of harmony, with Balor lord of the hideous Formorians, gods of chaos.

T TomBo
TomBo Aug 11, 2004 15:33:05
Replying to Wyrd Brother

"But I have problems in associating Balder the Beautiful, god of harmony, with Balor lord of the hideous Formorians, gods of chaos"

You need to bear in mind that the gods of any one pantheon usually become the demons of the pantheon that supplants them - like the horned god and the Christian devil. I read the whole Formorians vs. the Tuatha da Danaan thang in these terms, as one pantheon supplanting an older one. The similarity between Balder and Balor is solar: Balder's got associations with light, as you rightly point out, and I read Balor's "evil eye", with it's power to blast and burn, as a solar symbol. Also relevant is the Russian/Slavic deity "Byelbog, the White God, the representative of light" (from http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/srp/srp05.htm ). And speaking of the Christian devil, I wonder, in this context, about the name "Beelzebub".

E Earthstepper
Earthstepper Aug 11, 2004 15:50:35
Replying to Wyrd Brother

I'm staying out of this one 'cos it drives you mad. Its really all about archetypes and the origins of language. While you are considering Lugh, Lug and Lud don't forget Lucifer - the bringer of light turned into Satan. Matches as sources of light were known as lucifers until recently . So it goes on.

Nicolai Tolstoi has a lot to say about the similariites between Lugh, Odin, Christ and Merlin in his book on Merlin - virgin births, triple deaths, sacrificed on trees and so on. Me? I'm still hung up on the shamanic, drum beating, teaching South American Wotan.