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...back in Langdale:-

"Aren't people generally ok?" I reckon those who venture to Chapel Stile probably are. Most of whom, in all fairness, are likely go there to climb, not to see the carvings.

When I first read the story of Dr Mazel's concerns, I had images of boulderers saying "Here! These cupmarks are useful footholds!", whilst the carvings were chipping to bits. A bit of asking about, including the constructive comments here, shows that it seems that the rock is more durable than most rock art sites, and the climbers show respectful when informed of the carvings.

Maybe though, there is still the issue of alleged traces of chalk in some of the cups. Obviously I'd hope this isn't evidence of climbing on the motifs, or that at least if it is, that those responsible would desist should they be informed of the archaeological importance of the boulder they were using. For these folk, a sign should suffice to prevent possible damage (preferably a nice discreet one, so as not to spoil the view).

But having said this, I still think that the general idea of climbing such a monument is somehow inherently wrong. I'd like to think I've enough insight to realise this is partly a generalised, intuititive kinda thing, that many monuments have been clambered over throughout time, and they're still there etc. But it still feels that to say climbing on Copt Howe is fine, is to imply that climbing on any old pile of rocks or soil is OK. I saw someone climbing the Devil's chair, and his argument that it had survived upright for millennia didn't really hold water when it was pointed out that this was because it had spent millennia without shedloads of people climbing all over it. At the other end of the spectrum, I saw a certain Mr Goffik exercise exquisite care in making sure he didn't tread on the markings at Routing Linn (where incidentally, there is a sign which doesn't detract from the ambience). Most folk probably fall somewhere in between these ends of a spectrum. I know I'd be a hypocrite if I argued that all ancient sites should be totally off-limits to human contact, as I like having a deeks in the chambers of tombs, and exploring hillfort ditches, as much as the next bod.

We can't stop entropy, but life is an anti-entopic thing. Surely we can try and maximise the chances that these things we all care for, will still be as intact as possible when our descendants come to wonder at them. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to touch the stones at Avebury, that we should embalm Stonehenge in Plasticraft, nor even that we should send Silbury into space, to rest on an airless asteroid in a quiet bit of galactic space (though you've got to admit, it would protect it...).

But for the gawds sakes! A little sign. To let people know the score? That's not too much to ask is it?

I think I'm correct in saying only one person who's replied to this topic has come out firmly against a sign.

What I see as the main problem is what Ironman said about bouldering: "The sport is about achieving set routes - that's where the competitive element lies".....and The Langdale Boulders are in the bouldering guidebooks as a set route. Surely it must be wrong for any set bouldering route to be on a Scheduled Ancient Monument, whether the rock art is part of the route or not ?


Baz