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megadread wrote:
Sorry for being a miserable ba**ard but it fails to move me, this is just another made up myth, the tree is a focus yes, but it's not holy, well that's my opinion.
How long before the oak at the bottom of the path to WKLB becomes "holy" or the willow at Swallowhead, they are both adorned with increasing amounts of tat and are well on their way, aren't they. ?

I don't mind trees becoming "famous", nowt against Major Oak etc, but i do find it tiring to hear trees labelled "holy", they aren't.

It's a shame any tree is ever destroyed imo, even the ones i wipe my a*se on daily but it happens.
Sorry for being so blunt minded, i just can't weep for this tree any more than any other tree cut down that day.

Isn't folklore great? Love the insight it gives into humankind trying to make sense of its surroundings... 'what is that massive stone chamber upon the shoulder of that hill?... must've been the grave of a giant since it's so big...so we call it The Giant's Grave.' Clearly the most logical explanation at that time and held as fact until people came along, opened it up to find multiple skeletons inside and confirmed that, no, it wasn't the last resting place of a giant. We move on to gain greater understanding of who we are and why we are what we are... and hopefully what we need to do to improve ourselves.... through challenging current beliefs and perhaps finding them to be false. So what's next on the list, then?

For me this highlights the fundamental problem I have with religion - it wants to, needs to, hell, has to maintain the status quo to keep those who use it to exercise power, in power. Religion said 'destroy that cairn because its existance is a threat to us and the way we want see the world'. There can be no advancement without questionning, but that is not allowed with religion, is it?. To my mind fairy stories are great. Everyone needs a bit of escapism and no-one in their right mind would want bans on Santa Claus at Christmas because 'he doesn't exist'... the concept brings great joy to children and parents alike with no - as far as I can see -powerplay involved. And anyway, since folklore is held in the collective conscience, in a very real way 'he' does exist. A father putting on a red and white suit IS Santa Claus.Similarly, bans on practising religion since 'there's no proof' would be the end of us, just as bad as enforcing a particular type of religion. The only way forward in my mind is to put the information out there and resist any attempts to enforce one or the other. Nothing is ever achieved by force.

The issue I have with all the outroar over the mindless vandalism at Glastonbury is the way it highlights how people in general are very selective about what they complain about. Thanks to the monks (and dear old longshanks) Glastonbury became a medieval Arthurian theme park - very good for business - in much the same way the locals at Beddgelert in North Wales, to quote a recent example from my wanderings, cultivated a modern legend to bring in the punters. Fame generates more fame - and money - and it seems people are drawn to famous things to be part of it. Human nature, I guess. Yeah, I'm totally against the destruction of any iconic tree.. all trees unless there is a very, very good reason - but it is the legend itself which is the key for me - plant another and it will live on. No doubt there would be a great uproar if Gelert's Grave in Beddgelert was smashed. But would anyone care - or even NOTICE? - if some walker muppet dug a great big bloody hole in one of the Bronze Age burial cairns crowning Moel Hebog rising above the town. Something they have done to innumerable others of these monuments.. I don't hear the outcry in local or national press re the destruction of these, mindless vandalism which is carrying on as I type. These are actually tangibile connections to our ancient past. I guess that's my point. Record the legends and they will remain to enrich us as long as we are able to recall... but we need to move on as a species and try and understand everything that has made us who and what we are. Not just the easy to reach famous bits!! Or it will be too late.

GLADMAN wrote:
megadread wrote:
Sorry for being a miserable ba**ard but it fails to move me, this is just another made up myth, the tree is a focus yes, but it's not holy, well that's my opinion.
How long before the oak at the bottom of the path to WKLB becomes "holy" or the willow at Swallowhead, they are both adorned with increasing amounts of tat and are well on their way, aren't they. ?

I don't mind trees becoming "famous", nowt against Major Oak etc, but i do find it tiring to hear trees labelled "holy", they aren't.

It's a shame any tree is ever destroyed imo, even the ones i wipe my a*se on daily but it happens.
Sorry for being so blunt minded, i just can't weep for this tree any more than any other tree cut down that day.

Isn't folklore great? Love the insight it gives into humankind trying to make sense of its surroundings... 'what is that massive stone chamber upon the shoulder of that hill?... must've been the grave of a giant since it's so big...so we call it The Giant's Grave.' Clearly the most logical explanation at that time and held as fact until people came along, opened it up to find multiple skeletons inside and confirmed that, no, it wasn't the last resting place of a giant. We move on to gain greater understanding of who we are and why we are what we are... and hopefully what we need to do to improve ourselves.... through challenging current beliefs and perhaps finding them to be false. So what's next on the list, then?

For me this highlights the fundamental problem I have with religion - it wants to, needs to, hell, has to maintain the status quo to keep those who use it to exercise power, in power. Religion said 'destroy that cairn because its existance is a threat to us and the way we want see the world'. There can be no advancement without questionning, but that is not allowed with religion, is it?. To my mind fairy stories are great. Everyone needs a bit of escapism and no-one in their right mind would want bans on Santa Claus at Christmas because 'he doesn't exist'... the concept brings great joy to children and parents alike with no - as far as I can see -powerplay involved. And anyway, since folklore is held in the collective conscience, in a very real way 'he' does exist. A father putting on a red and white suit IS Santa Claus.Similarly, bans on practising religion since 'there's no proof' would be the end of us, just as bad as enforcing a particular type of religion. The only way forward in my mind is to put the information out there and resist any attempts to enforce one or the other. Nothing is ever achieved by force.

The issue I have with all the outroar over the mindless vandalism at Glastonbury is the way it highlights how people in general are very selective about what they complain about. Thanks to the monks (and dear old longshanks) Glastonbury became a medieval Arthurian theme park - very good for business - in much the same way the locals at Beddgelert in North Wales, to quote a recent example from my wanderings, cultivated a modern legend to bring in the punters. Fame generates more fame - and money - and it seems people are drawn to famous things to be part of it. Human nature, I guess. Yeah, I'm totally against the destruction of any iconic tree.. all trees unless there is a very, very good reason - but it is the legend itself which is the key for me - plant another and it will live on. No doubt there would be a great uproar if Gelert's Grave in Beddgelert was smashed. But would anyone care - or even NOTICE? - if some walker muppet dug a great big bloody hole in one of the Bronze Age burial cairns crowning Moel Hebog rising above the town. Something they have done to innumerable others of these monuments.. I don't hear the outcry in local or national press re the destruction of these, mindless vandalism which is carrying on as I type. These are actually tangibile connections to our ancient past. I guess that's my point. Record the legends and they will remain to enrich us as long as we are able to recall... but we need to move on as a species and try and understand everything that has made us who and what we are. Not just the easy to reach famous bits!! Or it will be too late.

As we have come to expect from you Gladman an excellent post we can all relate to I'm sure.

GLADMAN wrote:
Isn't folklore great? Love the insight it gives into humankind trying to make sense of its surroundings... 'what is that massive stone chamber upon the shoulder of that hill?... must've been the grave of a giant since it's so big...so we call it The Giant's Grave.' Clearly the most logical explanation at that time and held as fact until people came along, opened it up to find multiple skeletons inside and confirmed that, no, it wasn't the last resting place of a giant. We move on to gain greater understanding of who we are and why we are what we are... and hopefully what we need to do to improve ourselves.... through challenging current beliefs and perhaps finding them to be false. So what's next on the list, then?

For me this highlights the fundamental problem I have with religion - it wants to, needs to, hell, has to maintain the status quo to keep those who use it to exercise power, in power. Religion said 'destroy that cairn because its existance is a threat to us and the way we want see the world'. There can be no advancement without questionning, but that is not allowed with religion, is it?. To my mind fairy stories are great. Everyone needs a bit of escapism and no-one in their right mind would want bans on Santa Claus at Christmas because 'he doesn't exist'... the concept brings great joy to children and parents alike with no - as far as I can see -powerplay involved. And anyway, since folklore is held in the collective conscience, in a very real way 'he' does exist. A father putting on a red and white suit IS Santa Claus.Similarly, bans on practising religion since 'there's no proof' would be the end of us, just as bad as enforcing a particular type of religion. The only way forward in my mind is to put the information out there and resist any attempts to enforce one or the other. Nothing is ever achieved by force.

The issue I have with all the outroar over the mindless vandalism at Glastonbury is the way it highlights how people in general are very selective about what they complain about. Thanks to the monks (and dear old longshanks) Glastonbury became a medieval Arthurian theme park - very good for business - in much the same way the locals at Beddgelert in North Wales, to quote a recent example from my wanderings, cultivated a modern legend to bring in the punters. Fame generates more fame - and money - and it seems people are drawn to famous things to be part of it. Human nature, I guess. Yeah, I'm totally against the destruction of any iconic tree.. all trees unless there is a very, very good reason - but it is the legend itself which is the key for me - plant another and it will live on. No doubt there would be a great uproar if Gelert's Grave in Beddgelert was smashed. But would anyone care - or even NOTICE? - if some walker muppet dug a great big bloody hole in one of the Bronze Age burial cairns crowning Moel Hebog rising above the town. Something they have done to innumerable others of these monuments.. I don't hear the outcry in local or national press re the destruction of these, mindless vandalism which is carrying on as I type. These are actually tangibile connections to our ancient past. I guess that's my point. Record the legends and they will remain to enrich us as long as we are able to recall... but we need to move on as a species and try and understand everything that has made us who and what we are. Not just the easy to reach famous bits!! Or it will be too late.

Wonderfully put, Gladman, sums it up nicely. All sites are valuable, not just the famous ones.
Cheers,
TE.