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Glastonbury holy thorn destroyed

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tjj T
tjj Dec 12, 2010 09:42:55
Replying to tiompan

tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
StoneGloves wrote:
Wasn't there a bit more to the story? Joseph jammed his staff in the ground and it took root and so that's where the abbey was built. Holy relic still lives. It's a bit like the Shroud of Turin, only less connected. And it's a tiny piece of our national identity, no less. It's pity there's no better photographs.
This sums it up succinctly - whatever people feel about Christianity the notion that the Glastonbury thorn is 'a tiny piece of our national identity' seems right; something buried deep in our collective English psyche. Perhaps comparable to the ravens at the Tower of London (and how we would feel if someone came along and shot them). I'm sure Scotland and Wales have similar 'sacred' symbols of identity - I won't risk guessing what they may be though.
Like so many traditions (same root as traduce iirc)most of them are relatively modern, the victorians/edwarians seemed to have created the various national psyches (not the thorn one though ). Doesn't really matter as long as there is something . The ravens were killed or died during WW2 ,carefully replaced after .
Thanks Tiompan, I didn't know he ravens died during WWII. It seems the tradition of the ravens in the Tower is an ancient one that has its roots in Celtic Wales.
http://www.castles.me.uk/ravens-in-the-tower-of-london.htm
Morning June , then there's this take on it .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/nov/15/britishidentity.artsandhumanities

Thanks for the link Tiompan ... the Guardian is a clever and witty newspaper but not the oracle. If all our traditions/legends get debunked we are on the slippery slope to a druid/pagan free solstice. The Victorians were an imaginative lot - I quite like them.

T tiompan
tiompan Dec 12, 2010 10:12:37
Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:
tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
StoneGloves wrote:
Wasn't there a bit more to the story? Joseph jammed his staff in the ground and it took root and so that's where the abbey was built. Holy relic still lives. It's a bit like the Shroud of Turin, only less connected. And it's a tiny piece of our national identity, no less. It's pity there's no better photographs.
This sums it up succinctly - whatever people feel about Christianity the notion that the Glastonbury thorn is 'a tiny piece of our national identity' seems right; something buried deep in our collective English psyche. Perhaps comparable to the ravens at the Tower of London (and how we would feel if someone came along and shot them). I'm sure Scotland and Wales have similar 'sacred' symbols of identity - I won't risk guessing what they may be though.
Like so many traditions (same root as traduce iirc)most of them are relatively modern, the victorians/edwarians seemed to have created the various national psyches (not the thorn one though ). Doesn't really matter as long as there is something . The ravens were killed or died during WW2 ,carefully replaced after .
Thanks Tiompan, I didn't know he ravens died during WWII. It seems the tradition of the ravens in the Tower is an ancient one that has its roots in Celtic Wales.
http://www.castles.me.uk/ravens-in-the-tower-of-london.htm
Morning June , then there's this take on it .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/nov/15/britishidentity.artsandhumanities

Thanks for the link Tiompan ... the Guardian is a clever and witty newspaper but not the oracle. If all our traditions/legends get debunked we are on the slippery slope to a druid/pagan free solstice. The Victorians were an imaginative lot - I quite like them.
We are not doing so badly either , 150 years hence will see a slew of "traditions " created in our lifetimes (neoelizabethan ?) and most of them secular .

S Sanctuary
Sanctuary Dec 12, 2010 10:15:51
Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:
tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
tiompan wrote:
tjj wrote:
StoneGloves wrote:
Wasn't there a bit more to the story? Joseph jammed his staff in the ground and it took root and so that's where the abbey was built. Holy relic still lives. It's a bit like the Shroud of Turin, only less connected. And it's a tiny piece of our national identity, no less. It's pity there's no better photographs.
This sums it up succinctly - whatever people feel about Christianity the notion that the Glastonbury thorn is 'a tiny piece of our national identity' seems right; something buried deep in our collective English psyche. Perhaps comparable to the ravens at the Tower of London (and how we would feel if someone came along and shot them). I'm sure Scotland and Wales have similar 'sacred' symbols of identity - I won't risk guessing what they may be though.
Like so many traditions (same root as traduce iirc)most of them are relatively modern, the victorians/edwarians seemed to have created the various national psyches (not the thorn one though ). Doesn't really matter as long as there is something . The ravens were killed or died during WW2 ,carefully replaced after .
Thanks Tiompan, I didn't know he ravens died during WWII. It seems the tradition of the ravens in the Tower is an ancient one that has its roots in Celtic Wales.
http://www.castles.me.uk/ravens-in-the-tower-of-london.htm
Morning June , then there's this take on it .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/nov/15/britishidentity.artsandhumanities

Thanks for the link Tiompan ... the Guardian is a clever and witty newspaper but not the oracle. If all our traditions/legends get debunked we are on the slippery slope to a druid/pagan free solstice. The Victorians were an imaginative lot - I quite like them.
I'll stick my 5p's worth in here and say that a lot of traditional stories/legends are revealed as untruths when one studies a subject seriously, but often they are responsible for actually stimulating that very interest in the first place. So yes, I agree, don't knock them too much as we can learn so much more ultimately.