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Monganaut wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/19/oldest-skull-mudlarked-from-thames-belonged-to-neolithic-male

What a fascinating find, if only those old bones could speak eh?

Thanks so much for posting this.

I was particularly struck by this comment by the curator, in her discussion of hunter-gatherers haunting the 'open woodland landscape' around the Thames:

“They didn’t really build and didn’t create rubbish. They were perfect for the ecosystem..."

Such a poignant reminder in this time of ecological catastrophe, with plastic choking the oceans, etc., that humankind could actually exist this way. I often think, as we all do, of where it all went wrong: the Neolithic. Richard Bradley's Significance of Monuments has some fascinating things to say about the ideological conflict between early Neolithics and Mesolithic holdouts in Europe, the latter reminding one of modern luddites or those of us loathe to abandon the old for the new (analog for digital!).

So, it's odd that Dr. Redfern should speak of Neolithic Londoners as perfect for the ecosystem. If they were hunter-gatherers and weren't clearing land for farming - weren't building or leaving behind archaeological traces as she notes - then how were they Neolithic? Is she suggesting there was an Old School scene in London during the New Stone Age in the rest of Britain?

Don't forget, not all hunter gatherers embraced farming initially. I recall reading somewhere (I forget where exactly, maybe it was something on TV) that in the early years of the Neolithic/farming revolution, that actually those who remained hunter gatherers remained healthier, having a more varied diet than those early farmers who chose to put their eggs in one basket (so to speak). I'm sure those early farmers continued to hunt and gather as before, but being tied to one area, not following the seasonal herds left them at a disadvantage as to variety and availability of dietary resources. And I suppose, it's a lot of effort and organisation setting up a slash and burn field system every few years from woodlands or heath land. One of the dilemmas still unexplained by archaeologists/historians is the vast Neolithic/Bronze Age clearances that went on. We can still see the results of this today, esp in upland areas. Maybe it's as simple as under estimation of the population of the UK at the time, though I doubt this is the case.

It's a nice idea that we lived in harmony with nature and each other, but as Cope says in the Mod Ant (and I'm paraphrasing massively here) if they had the tech and resources we have, they'd have been using them. I'm no believer in that 'lost Eden' attitude. We've always been warlike apes who distrust outsiders. It's just that the general populous was so few, we didn't meet that many 'others' to have it out with. It's easier to live in 'harmony' with nature when there ain't so many of us fighting for resources. 'Civilization and trade forced us into contact with other tribes/nations/ whatever, and in a way forced us to get along if we wanted what they were offering, and vice versa, it's far from our natural way of being. Anthropologists have suggested that the ideal size of a human community is about 30 peeps. More than that causes stresses in relations. Which goes some way to explaining what an anomaly towns and cities are...they are still not good for us. Most hamlets and villages until fairly recent history were pretty small, obv's historically the Romans had larger towns and cities by the terms of the day, but those soon shrank after they left the UK.

Also, do you think we'd be as successful these days without the advent of huge game changers like antibiotics. Not so long ago a slight infection may have been enough to see us off. Just look at the UK (or even global) population growth charts from the mid 1850's onwards. With the likes of sanitation etc it's a steep ascent, and the curve is off like a rocket once antibiotics hit the scene. But i digress.....