A Very British Witchcraft

close
more_vert
tjj T
tjj Aug 27, 2013 20:36:22
Replying to thesweetcheat

thesweetcheat wrote:
tjj wrote:
... to discourage 'alternative' view points make this forum a poorer place (in my opinion for what it's worth).
I quite agree with this, although as you would probably expect I also agree with Mustard and Nigel on the "opinion as fact" aspect as well.

As as been said before, where the wheels come off in these sorts of threads is usually when someone expects their opinion to be taken as fact, and any attempt to challenge or question (or sometimes even put forward an alternative) is met with defensive affront, which can quickly descend into name-calling and in some cases has led to extremely offensive comments, sexism, racism, homophobia, ageism, sectarian abuse, you name it, we've had it. That's not in any way aimed at AC, by the way.

I'm not sure that this argument is ever likely to resolve itself, but I do think it could easily be avoided by people accepting that their viewpoint (whether it's 'alternative' or deeply conservative) is just that - an opinion. Then everyone can discuss and debate without fear of offence. Just my opinion, obviously!

The irony of this tsc, is that there was no argument - I had made the observation that Ronald Hutton had missed the opportunity to make any reference to the history of witchcraft/witch trials in the UK. Astralcat came on and made a perfectly polite response saying there probably hadn't been time for him to do this within the context of the programme. I agreed with this.
Subsequently however, his post was given the 'analytical' treatment and his personal experiences, which he hadn't enlarged upon, were yet again claimed to be stating 'belief' and/or 'personal experience' as fact. As Roy said earlier if someone experiences something then it is true for them but not necessarily anyone else. Astral Cat posts over on the 'Village Pump' (under a different name I think) where he is respected and liked. I doubt he'll be back here which is a shame because I like him - even if he is a bit of a hippy.

T thesweetcheat
thesweetcheat Aug 27, 2013 21:03:43
Replying to tjj

I agree with you that it would be a shame to lose different viewpoints, they are the basis of interesting discussion and new ideas, but
TMA does have an archaeology aspect, which is always going to be quite science or fact-based. So stating that such-and-such is factually correct is always going to raise the possibility of challenge, the same as it would if presented to any group of "experts" on any subject.

But TMA is full of posts about peoples' experiences, and folklore (fairies, giants, goblins) and theories! So there's clearly a place for all of that, just perhaps not if argued as "fact". As an aside, there is a very prickly David Icke/lizard people thread going on over on U-Know! at present, where (very very unsavoury) opinion is definitely being expressed as fact. I wouldn't bother going to look though :)

I appreciate Roy's view that if someone experiences something it's "true" for them, but that isn't really the same thing as being demonstrable as fact. I don't want to go round that particular loop again though, it's been done to death elsewhere and achieved no agreement!

Anyway, I don't imagine anyone wants to see AC stop posting in this bit of the forum.

N nigelswift
nigelswift Aug 27, 2013 21:17:18
Replying to tjj

Oh come on, he starts off saying “I will say that yet again, the proof or not is down to personal experience” which he knew darn well would cause people to disagree strongly. He then attributes something to Hutton that he realises he can't back up so he flounces off saying “And by the way..Fuck you pal”.

And then he's a poor innocent victim and it's all down to me and my wicked analysis! But like it says at the top of the page, "We all know what is acceptable interaction on this forum and what isn't" So I can't see a lot of excuse for saying Fuck you pal (yet that was missing from your account.). Not that I much mind being unjustly blackwashed these days, honest. My primary interest is in my tomatoes, which are truly epic.