Re: A Very British Witchcraft | Forum — The Modern Antiquarian

A Very British Witchcraft

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tjj Aug 27, 2013 09:44:04

Replying to nigelswift

nigelswift wrote:

Astralcat wrote:

I'm not getting into another game of semantic one upmanship, but I will say that yet again, the proof or not is down to personal experience.

If you don't want to play semantic one upmanship why toss out a statement you must know most people don't accept? ;)

Sigh! You must know by now I hate arguing with you but ... why not answer the main point AC's post which was well made i.e. that Ronald Hutton probably did not refer to the full history of witchcraft in his programme because there would not have been time to do it justice.

I accept AC's statement that some people have had personal experience of 'magic' in their lives. I (speaking personally) have seen it used by some for the purposes of intimidating others with sub-conscious fear and suggestion. I avoid those sort of people like the plague and for me the real magic in the world is the spring returning each year and the mist lifting to reveal a bright jewel of a day.

I'm sure AC doesn't want me defending him like I'm his over protective aunt or something but he does add a different perspective to discussions - as Bladup did in his time here, and to discourage 'alternative' view points make this forum a poorer place (in my opinion for what it's worth).

Mustard Aug 27, 2013 10:06:56

Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:

I totally agree. And if those points of view are presented as points of view and not facts, then we'll all get along just fine ;)

nigelswift Aug 27, 2013 10:07:04

Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:

I accept AC's statement that some people have had personal experience of 'magic' in there lives.

But I didn't say they didn't. I simply disputed the quite separate statement that "proof or not is down to personal experience". It ain't, IMO and I guess I'm entitled to say so, it being a public forum and all.

nigelswift Aug 27, 2013 13:56:03

Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:

I think this has been clarified by a number of people a number of times recently. Stating beliefs as fact without offering any justification is the only issue. If suggesting that's best not done is "discouraging alternative viewpoints" then so be it, most people are guilty.

As for people that got sacked from here I can't think of anyone that didn't deserve it but you could always ask the Eds if they think otherwise.

thesweetcheat Aug 27, 2013 19:45:43

Replying to tjj

tjj wrote:

... to discourage 'alternative' view points make this forum a poorer place (in my opinion for what it's worth).

I quite agree with this, although as you would probably expect I also agree with Mustard and Nigel on the "opinion as fact" aspect as well.

As as been said before, where the wheels come off in these sorts of threads is usually when someone expects their opinion to be taken as fact, and any attempt to challenge or question (or sometimes even put forward an alternative) is met with defensive affront, which can quickly descend into name-calling and in some cases has led to extremely offensive comments, sexism, racism, homophobia, ageism, sectarian abuse, you name it, we've had it. That's not in any way aimed at AC, by the way.

I'm not sure that this argument is ever likely to resolve itself, but I do think it could easily be avoided by people accepting that their viewpoint (whether it's 'alternative' or deeply conservative) is just that - an opinion. Then everyone can discuss and debate without fear of offence. Just my opinion, obviously!