close
more_vert

thesweetcheat wrote:
Well, because it made me think and it made me laugh, both of which are things I like in a good forum post.

I must admit that I hadn't really considered the Picts and the Scots to be distinct, in much the same way I wouldn't think of the Cornish/Welsh as being distinct from the Celtic people who were here before the Romans and Saxons (Sais) arrived. And then there's the question of what is "Roman" anyway, most of the legions were cobbled together from an enormously disparate group of peoples. It seems unlikely that a much larger pre-existing populace would simply disappear or move out, much more likely that they would continue much as before with different overlords (who might be more or less beneficent, who knows?). It is true that Saxons and Vikings did settle more extensively, rather than just a few elites, so the make-up of the eastern parts of Britain (especially England) has a bigger mix of those. But lowland Scotland, if anything, appears to have been extensively settled by peoples originally from Wales, so perhaps the lowland Scots are in fact Welsh? :-)

I was under the impression that the King Lists of what was to become Scotland were fabricated in part by Hector Boece to provide legitimacy to the rule of the incomers from Antrim over the existing inhabitants (who I'd call the Picts)... although to be fair I can't recall where I read that now. Might have been Trevor-Roper, so no doubt controversial.

If that is true, in short the Picts were written out of history for political ends. apparently losing their own language in favour of gaelic. The question I ask - in my southern ignorance - is whether they resisted forcibly, decided to go with the flow and join enthusiastically to take advantage of a better standard of life (?) or reacted with a fatalistic outlook akin to the collapse of the Inca empire. However since these were people who, by all accounts, refused to submit to The Romans wouldn't the former have been more likely?

thesweetcheat wrote:
I must admit that I hadn't really considered the Picts and the Scots to be distinct, in much the same way I wouldn't think of the Cornish/Welsh as being distinct from the Celtic people who were here before the Romans and Saxons (Sais) arrived.
That is just the issue. What is 'Celtic'? The Romans apparently understood that term to refer to 'foreigners' on the continent? Never mentioned any peoples living on these isles as 'Celtic'. And they should know!! Were they before the Anglo Saxons? Who says? I've just read Barry Cunliffe's new book and I'm sad to say I'm not at all convinced. Is there such a thing as a Celt? I reckon not. Based on a 'style of art'?

Besides, the archealogical evidence strongly suggests the 'Anglo Saxon taxeover' as being no-more than the Norman Conquest... one elite replacing another... the peasants going 'whatever', another load of bastards demanding taxes. Vast majority of the people remaining as was.

I would suggest a guilt complex is placiing 'rose tinted specs' over the eyes of modern Scots. Face it. You destroyed the Picts.